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 Post subject: Xantcha, Sleeper Agent Question...lots of layers
AgePosted: 2018-Aug-18 6:19 am 
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Joined: 2011-Dec-21 9:47 am
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Location: Hongen, Germany
I need a little help please,...if my opponent controls my Commander Xantcha, Sleeper Agent and I have Endless Whispers in play what happens when she dies and I allow her to go to the grave yard?

Thanks in advance!


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 Post subject: Re: Xantcha, Sleeper Agent Question...lots of layers
AgePosted: 2018-Aug-18 10:13 am 
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Joined: 2016-Nov-27 2:39 pm
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The ability triggers for your opponent who controls Xantcha as she dies. They choose one of their opponents (which can include you) to gain control of Xantcha.

The oracle text for Endless Whispers is clearer about what's going on than the printed text:
Quote:
Each creature has “When this creature dies, choose target opponent. That player puts this card from its owner’s graveyard onto the battlefield under their control at the beginning of the next end step.”


This doesn't trigger for you since Xantcha not a creature you control that dies at any point in this scenario. However, if they do choose you, you may want to have a sacrifice outlet so she dies ASAP and you can give her back to someone else.

Note the ruling on Endless Whispers also indicates it's the creature's controller who chooses:
Quote:
The creatures have the triggered ability, so each creature’s controller chooses one of their opponents to target.

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 Post subject: Re: Xantcha, Sleeper Agent Question...lots of layers
AgePosted: 2018-Aug-18 2:26 pm 
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Location: Hongen, Germany
Thank you for the Endless Whispers clarification, but I also think that Xantcha's
"As Xantcha, Sleeper Agent enters the battlefield, an opponent of your choice gains control of it." plays a role in if who Xantcha finally ends up with. As you explained they control the Endless Whisper trigger but I am curious as to who controls the Xantcha trigger as quoted above.

Thoughts?

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 Post subject: Re: Xantcha, Sleeper Agent Question...lots of layers
AgePosted: 2018-Aug-18 2:41 pm 

Joined: 2012-Apr-11 7:17 am
Age: Elder Dragon
It would be the player Xantcha was going to come into play under, correct? If I cast her, I control that and choose an opponent. If I reanimated her from a GY, I would control that and would do the same.

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 Post subject: Re: Xantcha, Sleeper Agent Question...lots of layers
AgePosted: 2018-Aug-18 3:12 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
MRHblue wrote:
It would be the player Xantcha was going to come into play under, correct? If I cast her, I control that and choose an opponent. If I reanimated her from a GY, I would control that and would do the same.

I agree with this - Xantcha works like a Clone - it's a replacement effect that applies AS the creature ETB's - at that point, whoever it was going to ETB for would be the controller of that ability.

Platinum_Emperion wrote:
I am curious as to who controls the Xantcha trigger as quoted above.

I know I'm splitting hairs here, but it's not a trigger. It's a replacement effect and thus does not use the stack - your opponents can't respond to you picking them to get Xantcha'd.

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 Post subject: Re: Xantcha, Sleeper Agent Question...lots of layers
AgePosted: 2018-Aug-19 3:56 pm 
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Xantcha's templating is very particular for getting around blink. It isn't an ETB trigger, but as mentioned above- is a replacement. What's it's softer to, oddly enough is Brand-like abilities (primarily Red iirc.) But that all seems like a non-issue to be quite honest; since Xantcha is quite nakedly designed to be played alongside Bazaar Trader, Crown of Doom, Assault Suit, Form of the Dragon etc. These sorts of shells. similar to "Fireball dudes" allow you to create enough reach for primarily burn/reach strategies- so even if particular effects hate out Xantcha-like cards bit by bit, you should have the tools to continue putting your permanents under other player's control.

I honestly think The Command Zone podcast messed up when they said that Roon hoses her as a commander. Roon and Brago do infact, not hose Xantcha- and it's obviously very much a part of her design (probably because unfun Roon and Brago decks try to draw the game out too much instead of making real plays. Or simply because Wizards has printed new cards that hose Blink/Flicker every year- probably to make their own commander games less monotonous)

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 Post subject: Re: Xantcha, Sleeper Agent Question...lots of layers
AgePosted: 2018-Aug-20 10:31 am 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
Mr Degradation wrote:
I honestly think The Command Zone podcast messed up when they said that Roon hoses her as a commander.

Well, if they said that, then yes, they messed up.

The only things I can think of that really do the trick are Brooding Saurian and Homeward Path, because they're repetitive Brand effects.

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