Login | Register


All times are UTC - 7 hours


It is currently 2019-Mar-26 6:55 am




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Muldrotha and Bestow
AgePosted: 2018-Sep-20 6:58 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2011-Feb-07 3:37 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Danbury, CT
If I have Muldrotha, the Gravetide in play and a Hypnotic Siren in my graveyard, can I bestow the siren onto a creature?

Edit: nm, oracle text specifies you can use alternate casting costs

_________________
The deck-o-pedia


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Muldrotha and Bestow
AgePosted: 2018-Sep-20 7:32 am 

Joined: 2012-Apr-11 7:17 am
Age: Elder Dragon
But it has to be your enchantment spell for the turn.

_________________
sir squab wrote:
My... history of buying Magic cards is probably a tapestry of bad financial decisions >_>
niheloim wrote:
No, I think he's right. I'm just all butt-hurt over prophet.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Muldrotha and Bestow
AgePosted: 2018-Sep-20 10:42 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2006-Dec-31 12:26 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
MRHblue wrote:
But it has to be your enchantment spell for the turn.

Why? Doesn't it check while the card is still in the graveyard (and thus both Enchantment & Creature)?


Top
 Online Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Muldrotha and Bestow
AgePosted: 2018-Sep-20 11:25 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2010-Jul-18 9:59 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
From a bit of searching around, bestow creatures only cease to be creatures once they're on the stack (effects that let you cast creatures as if they had flash do, apparently, let you Bestow at instant speed scratch that, that's not true), so for Muldrotha you could cast it as either your creature or enchantment (since they are Enchantment Creatures) for the turn, whether you're Bestowing or not.

_________________
"Degenerate, unfun decks generally come from degenerate, unfun players in my experience." - Cthulus Thrall

"- if this spell is played ten times in a given game then I suggest you warm up the tar and pluck some chickens" - tarnar

"I'm happy to serve as a quote machine" - Sheldon


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Muldrotha and Bestow
AgePosted: 2018-Sep-20 12:21 pm 

Joined: 2012-Apr-11 7:17 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Carthain wrote:
MRHblue wrote:
But it has to be your enchantment spell for the turn.

Why? Doesn't it check while the card is still in the graveyard (and thus both Enchantment & Creature)?


I think 702.102c covers that

The check for whether a spell can legally be cast happens after its controller has chosen whether to pay its bestow cost; see rule 601.2e.
Example: Aether Storm is an enchantment with the ability “Creature spells can’t be cast.” This effect doesn’t stop a creature card with bestow from being cast for its bestow cost because the spell is an Aura enchantment spell, not an enchantment creature spell, when the game checks whether the spell is illegal.

_________________
sir squab wrote:
My... history of buying Magic cards is probably a tapestry of bad financial decisions >_>
niheloim wrote:
No, I think he's right. I'm just all butt-hurt over prophet.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Muldrotha and Bestow
AgePosted: 2018-Sep-20 1:07 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2006-Dec-31 12:26 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
MRHblue: There's something about your post that I don't like that answer -- and I think I figured it out.

The rule you are pointing to, seems to imply that the check for legality of casting the spell only happens after the spell is on the stack & costs paid, modes & targets chosen, etc.

My contention is that it seems to imply that the check is *only* done after you get to that part.

However, rule 601.3 says: 601.3. A player can't begin to cast a spell unless a rule or effect allows that player to cast it. If that player is no longer allowed to cast that spell after completing its proposal, the casting of the spell is illegal and the game returns to the moment before the casting of that spell was proposed (see rule 721, "Handling Illegal Actions").

So.. I think there are two checks... one before you begin, and one once you try to say "ok, it's on the stack"

601.3 would allow you to bestow (or at least start to bestow) a creature even if the Muldrotha player has already played an enchantment from the yard. But then, as you say, 601.2e kicks in and says "no no, nice try" and rewinds things to put that bestow creature back in your yard.

And it makes sense (now that I think about it) that it checks both times. 601.3 is what restricts you from playing sorceries, say, on someone else's turn (barring Orrery-type effects). 601.2e is what prevents you from casting with illegal targets or all sorts of other things you're not allowed to do.

So I think the bit saying that the check to see if a spell can be legally cast after it's put it on the stack is in error -- it's simply one of the checks :P


Top
 Online Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Muldrotha and Bestow
AgePosted: 2018-Sep-20 1:51 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2010-Jul-18 9:59 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
I got an answer on /r/mtgrules which seems legit - it can count as either because Muldrotha says "a permanent card of each permanent type" - so the choice is based on the card, not the spell.

So; creature or enchantment, your choice, whether you're bestowing or not.

_________________
"Degenerate, unfun decks generally come from degenerate, unfun players in my experience." - Cthulus Thrall

"- if this spell is played ten times in a given game then I suggest you warm up the tar and pluck some chickens" - tarnar

"I'm happy to serve as a quote machine" - Sheldon


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Muldrotha and Bestow
AgePosted: 2018-Sep-20 3:20 pm 

Joined: 2012-Apr-11 7:17 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Another judge source seems to agree.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/MTGAskT ... 436603417/

_________________
sir squab wrote:
My... history of buying Magic cards is probably a tapestry of bad financial decisions >_>
niheloim wrote:
No, I think he's right. I'm just all butt-hurt over prophet.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Muldrotha and Bestow
AgePosted: 2018-Sep-20 3:31 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2010-Jul-18 9:59 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Yeah I found that thread too but there are multiple people with multiple answers on there an no definitive ruling from anyone as far as I could make out

_________________
"Degenerate, unfun decks generally come from degenerate, unfun players in my experience." - Cthulus Thrall

"- if this spell is played ten times in a given game then I suggest you warm up the tar and pluck some chickens" - tarnar

"I'm happy to serve as a quote machine" - Sheldon


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 7 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Carthain and 25 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: