Login | Register


All times are UTC - 7 hours


It is currently 2019-Jun-19 5:31 am




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Dual Lands and Color Identity
AgePosted: 2018-Oct-02 5:59 am 

Joined: 2018-Oct-02 5:45 am
Age: Hatchling
Hello folks!

I hope you are having a great day today!

I searched to see if this was mentioned elsewhere to see the discussion and I couldn't find it, so I decided I'd post it here. If you have talked about this at length elsewhere, then I apologize for my lack of Search Fu. You can just point me to that thread.



The ten original dual lands now have reminder text, and not actual rules text, that mentions what they tap for. So, am I correct that you can run say, Tundra in a deck that isn't white and blue?


Gatherer entry for Tundra:


http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?printed=true&multiverseid=383139


Note that the "tap" ability for W or U is in parenties and in italics, like reminder text.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dual Lands and Color Identity
AgePosted: 2018-Oct-02 8:13 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2010-Jul-18 9:59 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Lands with basic land types do have "Add <colour>" (no longer says "to your mana pool") baked into them as part of the rules text. It's not so much that the Dual lands have reminder text, it's that any Plains (including Tundra) has "Add {W}" as rules text, and that's what gives it it's colour identity.

So, no, you still can't add Tundra to a deck that doesn't have both a White and Blue colour identity.

_________________
"Degenerate, unfun decks generally come from degenerate, unfun players in my experience." - Cthulus Thrall

"- if this spell is played ten times in a given game then I suggest you warm up the tar and pluck some chickens" - tarnar

"I'm happy to serve as a quote machine" - Sheldon


Top
 Online Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dual Lands and Color Identity
AgePosted: 2018-Oct-02 8:39 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2012-Dec-03 3:16 am
Age: Elder Dragon
I wonder if this is the Abe Sargent that writes for Gatheringmagic.com. i wouldn't think so, but...

_________________
Shabbaman wrote:
The usual answer is "the social contract", but I guess that is not what you are looking for. Try house rules.


With perfect mana, reasonable removal, disruption, and card advantage, we're back to pitchforks and torches. And it's about to get worse for those who do not enjoy the game as Richard Garfield intended, playing as few win conditions as possible and prompting concession after all hopes (and spells) are lost. - Shaheen Soorani


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dual Lands and Color Identity
AgePosted: 2018-Oct-02 9:07 am 
EDH Rules Committee

Joined: 2006-May-18 5:21 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
The rules text explanation isn't quite right. 903.5d to the rescue!

903.5d A card with a basic land type may be included in a Commander deck only if each color of mana it could produce is included in the commander’s color identity.

This keeps duals out regardless of what's in the text box.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dual Lands and Color Identity
AgePosted: 2018-Oct-02 9:10 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2010-Jul-18 9:59 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
There must be some kind of rules text on Basics and Duals though, right? If all they have is reminder text, then they literally don't do anything. Note that Tundra, Hallowed Fountain, and even Mistveil Plains all don't have "T: Add {W}" anywhere in their rules text, so it must be in the rules somewhere.

_________________
"Degenerate, unfun decks generally come from degenerate, unfun players in my experience." - Cthulus Thrall

"- if this spell is played ten times in a given game then I suggest you warm up the tar and pluck some chickens" - tarnar

"I'm happy to serve as a quote machine" - Sheldon


Top
 Online Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dual Lands and Color Identity
AgePosted: 2018-Oct-02 9:13 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2012-Feb-07 4:15 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
I don't think he was disagreeing with your rules explanation, moreso saying it's irrelevant because regardless of what the actual Magic CR says about basics, the EDH color identity rules have a specific clause regarding basic land types.

_________________


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dual Lands and Color Identity
AgePosted: 2018-Oct-02 9:31 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2012-Sep-19 1:30 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Viperion wrote:
There must be some kind of rules text on Basics and Duals though, right? If all they have is reminder text, then they literally don't do anything. Note that Tundra, Hallowed Fountain, and even Mistveil Plains all don't have "T: Add {W}" anywhere in their rules text, so it must be in the rules somewhere.

It's because the rules define any lands with those subtypes as having those abilities:
Comprehensive Rules wrote:
305.6. The basic land types are Plains, Island, Swamp, Mountain, and Forest. If an object uses the words "basic land type," it’s referring to one of these subtypes. A land with a basic land type has the intrinsic ability "{T}: Add [mana symbol]," even if the text box doesn’t actually contain that text or the object has no text box. For Plains, [mana symbol] is {W}; for Islands, {U}; for Swamps, {B}; for Mountains, {R}; and for Forests, {G}. See rule 107.4a. See also rule 605, "Mana Abilities."

i.e. Yes, it's reminder text. Just like the single word "Flying" on a card is defined in the rules document (and has reminder text), the basic land types on the type line do the same thing. Hence the need for rule 903.5d.

_________________
Useful threads: Colorless CI landsGraveyard HateRoR's Greatest Hits
My Decks: Zombiepocalypse (Thraximundar) ♦ Thrun stands alone (voltron) ♦ Ashling the Burninator ♦ Doran beatdown (treefolk/plant tribal) ♦ Mine! (UB theft/clone) ♦ Vampire Beatdown (Edgar Markov) ♦ BW Enchantments (Daxos the Returned)


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dual Lands and Color Identity
AgePosted: 2018-Oct-02 9:52 am 

Joined: 2012-Mar-31 11:52 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Inkeyes22 wrote:
I wonder if this is the Abe Sargent that writes for Gatheringmagic.com. i wouldn't think so, but...

Maybe he should stop writing if it is him.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dual Lands and Color Identity
AgePosted: 2018-Oct-02 10:42 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2011-Feb-07 3:37 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Danbury, CT
Yeah, baked in rules text... it's a doozy
(see also: every grumpy player who wanted to put two loyalty counters on Garruk Wildspeaker when they untapped two lands)

cryogen wrote:
Inkeyes22 wrote:
I wonder if this is the Abe Sargent that writes for Gatheringmagic.com. i wouldn't think so, but...

Maybe he should stop writing if it is him.


Unnecessary snark! Boo!

_________________
The deck-o-pedia


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dual Lands and Color Identity
AgePosted: 2018-Oct-02 12:36 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2006-Dec-31 12:26 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
It's the same rules/logic that keeps the basics in the "appropriate" decks.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dual Lands and Color Identity
AgePosted: 2018-Oct-02 8:42 pm 

Joined: 2015-Dec-22 4:41 am
Age: Drake
The mana abilities of OG dual lands are not part of their rules text, just like the keyword Exploit doesn't add a White/Black hybrid mana symbol to their rules text. The rules of color identity (as covered under rule 903.4) only care about what is printed on the oracle text of the card, not about how the oracle text of the card is interpreted.

Having said that, OG dual land legality is covered under rule 903.5d.

_________________
.


Last edited by MMLgamer on 2018-Oct-03 3:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dual Lands and Color Identity
AgePosted: 2018-Oct-02 11:51 pm 

Joined: 2018-Oct-02 5:45 am
Age: Hatchling
Gotcha, so it's not Color Identity but another rule. Thanks for your time everyone and have a great day!!!


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dual Lands and Color Identity
AgePosted: 2018-Oct-03 9:29 am 

Joined: 2015-Jan-14 2:58 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
It’s part of the CI rules, that specifically shoehorns basic land types into their respective CIs because they otherwise would have no CI.

_________________
Deepglow Skate
Antis wrote:
I'm seriously suspicious of any card that makes Doubling Season look fair and reasonable.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dual Lands and Color Identity
AgePosted: 2018-Oct-03 9:37 pm 

Joined: 2012-Mar-31 11:52 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Kemev wrote:
Yeah, baked in rules text... it's a doozy
(see also: every grumpy player who wanted to put two loyalty counters on Garruk Wildspeaker when they untapped two lands)

cryogen wrote:
Inkeyes22 wrote:
I wonder if this is the Abe Sargent that writes for Gatheringmagic.com. i wouldn't think so, but...

Maybe he should stop writing if it is him.


Unnecessary snark! Boo!

It's part of the job.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dual Lands and Color Identity
AgePosted: 2018-Oct-04 1:08 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2006-Dec-31 12:26 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Spectrar Ghost wrote:
It’s part of the CI rules, that specifically shoehorns basic land types into their respective CIs because they otherwise would have no CI.

Technically no. :)

Rules 903.4* are Colour Identity, the rule about lands with basic land types is 903.5d. In fact, 903.5c is the one that says a card can only be included if it's within the subset of your commander's colour identity. So that we have the next rule that is also restricting what cards can go into your deck based off of land type means it's not covered by CI.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 7 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Viperion and 34 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: