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 Post subject: Re: let's talk unbanning.
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-05 3:12 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Feb-07 4:15 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Hello and welcome to the forums!

Before I say anything else, I feel it important to mention that Rofellos is probably the least likely card to ever come off the banned list*. It was banned, then got unbanned, and then pretty quickly got firmly rebanned, and IIRC is the only card to have done so.
mi11er wrote:
Now that we have a card like Selvala, Heart of the Wilds is Rofellos still ban worthy?
Selvala's existence has nothing to do with whether Rofellos is banworthy. But, accepting for the sake of the argument that the banned list should include both or neither, Selvala deserves to be banned more than Rofellos deserves to be unbanned.

mi11er wrote:
Rofellos... can't be nearly as explosive out of the gate as Selvala and Selvala has built in card draw.
The first part is true...ish. I've seen dozens of opening hands for Selvala that would have been a T3 win for Rofellos, and if we want to go into god-hand territory there's multiple ways to get Rofellos there on T2. That being said neither point is particularly relevant.

When evaluating EDH cards for banning, there's a pretty big consideration given to both the floor and the ceiling of the card. Selvala is a card with an insanely high ceiling but a pretty low floor; a card which could in theory be disruptive at the top of competitive play but is precisely what a more casual environment is looking for. Rofellos on the other hand has a slightly lower but still absurdly high ceiling, and arguably the highest floor of any commander.

I'll put it another way. Selvala can be broken by leading a deck designed to break her. Rofellos can be broken merely by starting off the game in the command zone.

Most of what I've said is pretty summary, but if you want more in-depth discussion about Rofellos (and comparing him to Selvala), there's a few older threads that discuss pretty much all of the relevant points that can be found via the search bar.
[spoiler="*"]Unless they decide to bring back the "banned as a commander" list, in which case Rofellos' status might change to that list.[/spoiler]

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 Post subject: Re: let's talk unbanning.
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-05 11:56 pm 

Joined: 2019-Jun-05 11:49 pm
Age: Wyvern
Quote:
'll put it another way. Selvala can be broken by leading a deck designed to break her. Rofellos can be broken merely by starting off the game in the command zone.


I think this is definitely true and kind've makes me question why they decided to get rid of the "banned as commander" list. Rofellos definitely has the potential to be somewhat broken as a commander (although less now than in previous years) but as part of the 99 I don't think he would cause too much harm.


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 Post subject: Re: let's talk unbanning.
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-06 5:41 am 

Joined: 2019-Jun-04 3:43 pm
Age: Hatchling
Undoubtedly Rofellos is very powerful just by being in the command zone due to the insane mana ramp to cost that he offers. Dropping on turn 2 or 1 is very powerful, especially if it happens on a board that doesn't prepare for early interaction.

The floor of the power of the card is an excellent argument. Rofellos really does take a lot away from mono green decks if he were to be legal, since he is so efficient. Now for almost every mono-green deck it would be stronger if Rofellos was just the commander and that kind of power and efficiency in the command zone would be bad for the game.

I'll concede the way that Rofellos functions in the greater EDH environment would be too powerful and disruptive. If the format was only about the most competitive decks I would argue that Rofellos could be unbanned since players in a more competitive meta are prepared for early interaction and disruption. In a 4 player pod you would have 3 players who should be prepared to interact early and ready to disrupt plays right from the start of the game. But this scenario doesn't describe the EDH meta at large.


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 Post subject: Re: let's talk unbanning.
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-06 6:29 am 
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Joined: 2014-Jul-28 8:30 am
Age: Dragon
Well, I'd say M11er is now on the shortlist for "Most Polite New User 2K19".

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