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 Post subject: Re: let's talk unbanning.
AgePosted: 2019-May-29 2:37 pm 

Joined: 2019-May-28 3:13 pm
Age: Wyvern
Quote:
Guys, honestly it wouldn't surprise me if RonB and Sickly are the same person, and he made a second account for the express purpose of trolling you, in which case you're taking the bait. He's a troll at best, and should not be fed.


Is your ego so huge that it's impossible to imagine that more than one person might disagree with your opinion?


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 Post subject: Re: let's talk unbanning.
AgePosted: 2019-May-29 2:47 pm 

Joined: 2014-Jul-26 11:35 am
Age: Elder Dragon
sicklyjewel wrote:
Honestly a huge issue with this forum is that the people who have been here for years (like Carthain and others) see themselves as somehow better and above new users. They think it's okay to condescend them and actively try to make them feel stupid because it helps their massive inflated ego. That kind of attitude is pathetic and toxic, and is one of the many reasons why this forum is terrible.

The issue that new users, RonB, you, seem to be encountering is the assumption that your posts should be given equal treatment to those of people who have been here a long time and that's just not how any place I've ever been in works. We don't know you, and you don't know us. If you came into my LGS and started telling us that we are doing things wrong in the same way you have done here, you would get the same kind of response. I need to know at least something about who you are before I can give your opinion any value.

Both of you come out of the gates on attack mode and are surprised when people get defensive. As the new person you speak out first, so you set the tone for the conversation, and the tone you set was an aggressive one. A rule for life if nothing else, if you are new to anywhere, ask before you tell.

It doesn't matter how intelligent, experienced or right you might be, if you don't understand the people you are talking to, you wont be able to communicate with them.

I also don't expect you to take me at face value, my record on this forum is publicly available, see for yourself who I am and what my opinions are.

Finally, if you still believe this forum is terrible, click the X in the top right corner and move on. I've had plenty of arguments with these people, probably gone too far in a few of them, but I still respect them and enjoy their comments. If you don't think you can fit in here, then don't. We wont even know what we're missing out on.

_________________
Favourite Deck:
Ghost Council of Orzhova

Playing Online:
Noyan Darr & Sedris Zombie Guy


Last edited by specter404 on 2019-May-29 4:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: let's talk unbanning.
AgePosted: 2019-May-29 3:51 pm 

Joined: 2019-May-28 3:13 pm
Age: Wyvern
Quote:
It doesn't matter how intelligent, experienced or right you might be, if you don't understand the people you are talking to, you wont be able to communicate with them.


Some of the older users here who like to belittle newer users would be smart to listen to this advice


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 Post subject: Re: let's talk unbanning.
AgePosted: 2019-May-29 8:43 pm 

Joined: 2016-Feb-13 2:14 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Orlando, Florida
Quote:
The issue that new users, RonB, you, seem to be encountering is the assumption that your posts should be given equal treatment to those of people who have been here a long time and that's just not how any place I've ever been in works. We don't know you, and you don't know us. If you came into my LGS and started telling us that we are doing things wrong in the same way you have done here, you would get the same kind of response. I need to know at least something about who you are before I can give your opinion any value.


Some of the newer users here who like to belittle older users would be smart to listen to this advice


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 Post subject: Re: let's talk unbanning.
AgePosted: 2019-May-29 8:52 pm 
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Joined: 2016-Nov-27 2:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Don't worry, sicklyjewel already outed themselves as a rampant troll (like it wasn't already becoming clear anyway). I've been flagging multiple posts of theirs including that one. We don't really need to pay much attention at this point.

_________________
Decks: Chaos colored dragons, Mathas, the Instigator (politics and mayhem).
Beloved precons: Atraxa, Praetors' Voice; Saskia the Unyielding; Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury.


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 Post subject: Re: let's talk unbanning.
AgePosted: 2019-May-30 1:05 am 

Joined: 2019-Mar-15 1:06 pm
Age: Wyvern
Wow. The comment he made in that topic is just uncalled for.


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 Post subject: Re: let's talk unbanning.
AgePosted: 2019-May-30 2:02 am 
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Joined: 2006-Dec-31 12:26 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
I do like that we've recently had a few new people show up ... and how they got treated is on both ends of the spectrum. It gives actual proof of what we've been telling people -- we are quite accepting if you don't come in all arrogant & on the offensive-like.


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 Post subject: Re: let's talk unbanning.
AgePosted: 2019-May-30 3:22 am 
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Joined: 2016-Nov-27 2:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
@Panphage Yep. And it's screenshotted just in case, with y'all as my cowitnesses.

Carthain wrote:
I do like that we've recently had a few new people show up ... and how they got treated is on both ends of the spectrum. It gives actual proof of what we've been telling people -- we are quite accepting if you don't come in all arrogant & on the offensive-like.

There's something about forum environments that tends to make people default to fists swinging, I worry. We could do better handling newbies and finding ways to settle things down but I'm not sure how well we would actually do at it.

_________________
Decks: Chaos colored dragons, Mathas, the Instigator (politics and mayhem).
Beloved precons: Atraxa, Praetors' Voice; Saskia the Unyielding; Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury.


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 Post subject: Re: let's talk unbanning.
AgePosted: 2019-May-30 4:04 am 
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Joined: 2006-Dec-31 12:26 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
spacemonaut wrote:
There's something about forum environments that tends to make people default to fists swinging, I worry. We could do better handling newbies and finding ways to settle things down but I'm not sure how well we would actually do at it.

Yeah, any new-ish poster could be greeted a bit better (I'm not claiming we're perfect.) But, having examples of how we do treat people different depending on how they first present themselves (which is what we claim) -- is good as it at least we do perform as we claim we do :)


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 Post subject: Re: let's talk unbanning.
AgePosted: 2019-May-30 4:43 am 

Joined: 2019-Mar-15 1:06 pm
Age: Wyvern
I've had nothing but good interactions in this section of the site. My post in the decklists section has resulted in people calling me a dick, telling me that I must like to deprive other people of the ability to play and a bunch of other inaccurate assumptions based off of two cards in my deck.

There's definitely a few people on this site who can't figure out that certain cards don't always have to be played in one specific way. I'm not planning on leaving the site because of a few rude people, but some people should consider not projecting quite so much.


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 Post subject: Re: let's talk unbanning.
AgePosted: 2019-May-31 12:24 am 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
Panphage wrote:
I've had nothing but good interactions in this section of the site. My post in the decklists section has resulted in people calling me a dick, telling me that I must like to deprive other people of the ability to play and a bunch of other inaccurate assumptions based off of two cards in my deck.

There's definitely a few people on this site who can't figure out that certain cards don't always have to be played in one specific way. I'm not planning on leaving the site because of a few rude people, but some people should consider not projecting quite so much.

I tried to make that thread better near the beginning by somewhat rephrasing the first response to try to curb more negative replies, but unfortunately I got pulled away by work and couldn't keep up with the thread. Basically just wanted to acknowledge what was being expressed and also give you a reason to explain the gaming environment you're seeing.

Honestly, that initial reaction felt well out of the norm for the Decklists section. I sincerely wouldn't expect that every time you go to that part.

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 Post subject: Re: let's talk unbanning.
AgePosted: 2019-May-31 12:56 am 

Joined: 2019-Mar-15 1:06 pm
Age: Wyvern
It just seemed weird to me. I figured that it must not be the norm based on the conversations in this topic about the conduct of the other new users. I know that it isn't a popular card, but I was never expecting Armageddon to be so inflammatory. The topic seems to have improved and gone in a better direction since then.


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 Post subject: Re: let's talk unbanning.
AgePosted: 2019-May-31 1:03 am 
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Joined: 2012-Dec-03 3:16 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Panphage wrote:
It just seemed weird to me. I figured that it must not be the norm based on the conversations in this topic about the conduct of the other new users. I know that it isn't a popular card, but I was never expecting Armageddon to be so inflammatory. The topic seems to have improved and gone in a better direction since then.


Frankly 2 cards that you cannot tutor for in the deck are quite likely to not even be seen in 7-10 games. I think sometimes people get a little too comfortable with things and so they feel it is okay to be crass. It is sad but bringing it up over and over doesn't really help matters either.

Every time a new set comes out I am always hopeful that the RC feels it is okay to unleash some of my pet cards (to refocus topic to unbanning). I sadly do not have any new ideas or anything to contribute to the idea but Recurring Nightmare, Tinker and Gifts Ungiven being unbanned might be what we need to get people to run more graveyard hate/pruning or counterspells.

_________________
Shabbaman wrote:
The usual answer is "the social contract", but I guess that is not what you are looking for. Try house rules.


With perfect mana, reasonable removal, disruption, and card advantage, we're back to pitchforks and torches. And it's about to get worse for those who do not enjoy the game as Richard Garfield intended, playing as few win conditions as possible and prompting concession after all hopes (and spells) are lost. - Shaheen Soorani


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 Post subject: Re: let's talk unbanning.
AgePosted: 2019-May-31 4:21 pm 

Joined: 2019-Apr-29 9:42 pm
Age: Wyvern
I’m going to add my two cents. Braids doesn’t have the same problem primeval titan does. Nor does it really compare to much on that is unban save for contamination.

You might think it’s ok to start poxing and stalling the game at turn 2 or less but no one else will have it. As someone mentioned before it was on a separate ban list back when you had a general ban list for people to not play braids in the command zone. The only other card that compares is an enchantment that acts like a better blood moon and only sticks around if you can sacrifice a creature each upkeep. So you can’t get away from the negative effect and it doesn’t make people sacrifice their lands.

I’m all for testing and unbanning things in your personal playgroup and with that in kind testing it among your friends seems reasonable. This way you can understand the issues people have with unbanning braids. The faster it comes out the more powerful and unfun it usually is. At least with contamination people can still play colorless and black spells. Even with Iona people can play around it if their deck has colorless answers like all is dustor [card]oblivion stone[\card].

Reoccuring nightmare and Geiselbrand seem fine to me and we allow it in our pool. Make your own distinction among the players in your main play group.

Quote:

Now that doesnt mean that I think everything should be unbanned,just re-evaluated. I'll use a better example than braids because Clearly she has rubbed some salt into a few wounds. Ancestral Recall one blue draw three. Is that Honestly going to blow a game into pieces? On an isochron scepter even? Sure it's good but more often than not plenty of decks have fantastic draw engines that dont care, or have better things to do with iso scepter such as dramatic reversal into infinite combo win. And it's not even strictly better than other 1 mana cantrips let's look at brainstorm it allows you to protect important cards from hand disruption, or faithless looting let's you set up grave synergies, twice. Even ponder let's you shuffle away dead top decks.

While flipside of the coin time walk should probably never be unbanned, because obviously.


As for ancestral recall the card is broken in half and a game can be determined based on who got to cast theirs off and won fastest. I would suggest looking at the vintage one ofs list and legacy bans to understand the power of these cards. CEDH decks would be able to go off on turn 1/2 with that card in play. The two main things people should always watch out for is how much mana it cheats/produces and how much card advantage the card can gain. One for three at one blue is extremely effective.

An example of a hand that wins the game on turn 1 would be elvish spirt guide, mana crypt, tundra, lions eye diamond, brainstorm, Auriok Salvagers, and a force of will because why not.

Play tundra, mana crypt, lions eye diamond. Brainstorm you Auriok Salvagers and force of will away.
Next crack the lions eye diamond for white and exile the elvish sprit guide for an extra green put ancestral recall on the stack. Lions eye makes you discard the last one card in you hand if you have any. Ancestral recall resolves draws you three cards, two of which are blue spells. Cast Auriok Salvagers. Go off next turn and kill your oppoents. If you make force of will and the other two avaible cards more fast ramp you kill them that turn.

All of these cards are played saved for ancestral recall.

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Deck list Thraximundar midrange/control

Deck list Jund creature combo (not updated)


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 Post subject: Re: let's talk unbanning.
AgePosted: 2019-May-31 10:29 pm 

Joined: 2012-Mar-31 11:52 am
Age: Elder Dragon
I can count on one hand the number of people at my LGS who own all those cards. Recall is a broken card by game design standards, but it's not going to define games except at the highest of cEDH tiers, and who cares about that? Without exaggeration, I would rather my opponents have a turn 1 Recall than Sol Sol Ring.


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