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 Post subject: London Mulligan is becoming the official MTG Mulligan
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-03 12:55 am 
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Joined: 2016-Nov-27 2:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Read about it on the mothership: The London Mulligan (June 3rd 2019)

This change will go into effect with Core 2020. The article includes the comprehensive rule that will be used, plus a LOT of background on why they've made this change.

Here's a summary of it from the article, with some slight editing to clarify when shuffling takes place:

Quote:
Essentially, each time you take a mulligan, you [shuffle your hand into your deck, then] draw up to seven cards, then put a number of cards from your hand equal to the number of times you have mulliganed this game on the bottom of your library in an order of your choice. Your starting hand will still be down a card for each time you mulligan, but you'll always get to select that starting hand from a choice among seven cards. Unlike the current ("Vancouver") mulligan, there's no scry after you decide your starting hand.

There is no final shuffle after all mulligans are done. This means if you Mulligan, then after you're done you'll know some of the bottom cards of your deck. Congrats, Grenzo, Dungeon Warden fans!

Update 4th June: The EDH RC has confirmed this will become Commander's mulligan.

_________________
Decks: Chaos colored dragons, Mathas, the Instigator (politics and mayhem).
Beloved precons: Atraxa, Praetors' Voice; Saskia the Unyielding; Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury.


Last edited by spacemonaut on 2019-Jun-04 6:38 am, edited 5 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: London Mulligan is becoming the official Mulligan
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-03 1:11 am 

Joined: 2019-Mar-15 1:06 pm
Age: Wyvern
I've thought that this was a goofy idea since they began testing it, but I'll live with it if it's the reality of the game. Is it 100% certain that this will be the mulligan format for Commander?


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 Post subject: Re: London Mulligan is becoming the official Mulligan
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-03 1:19 am 
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Joined: 2016-Nov-27 2:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Panphage wrote:
I've thought that this was a goofy idea since they began testing it, but I'll live with it if it's the reality of the game. Is it 100% certain that this will be the mulligan format for Commander?

Commander just uses the base game's Mulligan rules, therefore this is set to become the Commander Mulligan too, unless the EDH RC does anything to change that.

Commander used to use its own defined Mulligan but that rule was retired in January 2016.

_________________
Decks: Chaos colored dragons, Mathas, the Instigator (politics and mayhem).
Beloved precons: Atraxa, Praetors' Voice; Saskia the Unyielding; Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury.


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 Post subject: Re: London Mulligan is becoming the official Mulligan
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-03 1:47 am 

Joined: 2019-Mar-15 1:06 pm
Age: Wyvern
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. I'm curious to see if there is any action on the part of the RC.


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 Post subject: Re: London Mulligan is becoming the official Mulligan
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-03 2:04 am 

Joined: 2013-Apr-22 2:20 am
Age: Wyvern
Sheldon indicated via twitter that they will have an announcement soon.

The Commander RC will have some official words soon (worst case: by the M20 release announcement) regarding whether or not we'll be adopting the London mulligan. Between now and then, if you have opinions, we'd love to hear them.

https://twitter.com/SheldonMenery/statu ... 6551758850


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 Post subject: Re: London Mulligan is becoming the official MTG Mulligan
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-03 3:54 am 

Joined: 2014-Sep-13 7:28 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Is there really a reason a not to use it? This format has already eliminated rules to be more in line with other formats to be more user friendly and work on mtgo (wink wink conspiracy theorists).


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 Post subject: Re: London Mulligan is becoming the official MTG Mulligan
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-03 4:30 am 

Joined: 2012-Mar-31 11:52 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Sovarius wrote:
Is there really a reason a not to use it? This format has already eliminated rules to be more in line with other formats to be more user friendly and work on mtgo (wink wink conspiracy theorists).

There has been theory-crafting that it is more easily abused in eternal formats.


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 Post subject: Re: London Mulligan is becoming the official MTG Mulligan
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-03 5:39 am 
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Joined: 2006-Dec-31 12:26 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
cryogen wrote:
Sovarius wrote:
Is there really a reason a not to use it? This format has already eliminated rules to be more in line with other formats to be more user friendly and work on mtgo (wink wink conspiracy theorists).

There has been theory-crafting that it is more easily abused in eternal formats.

And so far their findings seem to show that either a) there isn't a way to excessively abuse it, or b) being able to better find sideboard cards helps keep everything in check.

As we don't have the possibility for 'b' in commander, I can certainly see commander players being a bit more wary about the change.


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 Post subject: Re: London Mulligan is becoming the official MTG Mulligan
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-03 6:25 am 

Joined: 2014-Sep-13 7:28 am
Age: Elder Dragon
cryogen wrote:
Sovarius wrote:
Is there really a reason a not to use it? This format has already eliminated rules to be more in line with other formats to be more user friendly and work on mtgo (wink wink conspiracy theorists).

There has been theory-crafting that it is more easily abused in eternal formats.

This is just not an eternal format in the same way 60 card formats of 4-0fs or p9 are eternal though.

The worst that would happen to casual play is people just ship fairly keepable hands and dig for Crypt or something stupid?

cEDH has a bit of a different issue but competitive decks are just interactive anyway. I've had a hard time understanding why people think combo decks are just more favored strictly speaking*. The combos assemble with a slightly higher starting hand size but a balanced deck still gets 2 mulligans that are not so punitive as well.

We don't have sideboard cards but are casual players, on average, playing decks that would really have cause to mull to 5 great busted cards instead of 7 acceptable-good hands, leaving everyone else with possibly not interaction for their specific plan? Pretty sure you are still at 5 in a format where your opponents can have 20ish so i'm not specifically sure what the problem is.

*I do understand that combo decks are looking for particular cards and fair decks on average have more redundant cards.


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 Post subject: Re: London Mulligan is becoming the official MTG Mulligan
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-03 6:42 am 
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Joined: 2016-Nov-27 2:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
I'm looking forward to it because I'll have fewer dead mulligans. Meaning if I gotta mulligan, at least my next hand stands a good chance of being playable. Nothing worse than drawing down to 5 and it looks worse than your first two hands. (Unless you're drawing down to 4, I guess that's worse...)

_________________
Decks: Chaos colored dragons, Mathas, the Instigator (politics and mayhem).
Beloved precons: Atraxa, Praetors' Voice; Saskia the Unyielding; Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury.


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 Post subject: Re: London Mulligan is becoming the official MTG Mulligan
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-03 9:32 am 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
Is there anything other than Grenzo that's really abusable about this?

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"The President's job - and if someone sufficiently vain and stupid is picked he won't realize this - is not to wield power, but to draw attention away from it." -- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide tot he Galaxy Radio Transcripts predicting the future.


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 Post subject: Re: London Mulligan is becoming the official MTG Mulligan
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-03 10:36 am 
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Joined: 2011-Jan-18 11:59 am
Age: Elder Dragon
My LGS uses the Partial Paris still, we've discussed it a loooooooong time ago, and are in agreement that we'll explain Partial Paris to any new comers.

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"... the RC doesn't negotiate with terrorists. " - Sheldon Menery 9/14/2011


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 Post subject: Re: London Mulligan is becoming the official MTG Mulligan
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-03 1:03 pm 

Joined: 2014-Sep-13 7:28 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Sid the Chicken wrote:
Is there anything other than Grenzo that's really abusable about this?

Well, like i was saying above i think it's more the cEDh end of spectrum. That's why i was asking what the argument is against it for casual end of play.

In particular, Flash Hulk is not only an a+b type of combo (hulk + hulk dies) that benefits from aggressive mulliganing, but it also wins for 2 mana if your combo pieces are *in* the deck and now you can put them back. In the best hulk pile the 1-2 mana anyway but it also lets you put Kozilek/Ulamog back if you are playing that variant.

I don't think it will break Grenzo wide open - you can't use any tutor or fetch, and you only get to bottom what you at least saw in your hand.


Last edited by Sovarius on 2019-Jun-04 3:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: London Mulligan is becoming the official MTG Mulligan
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-04 1:46 am 

Joined: 2019-Jun-04 1:41 am
Age: Egg
I think keeping as many rules consistent with other formats is important. Many playgroups adopt some type of house mulligan rule, and would be entirely unaffected. Please adopt the London mulligan.


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 Post subject: Re: London Mulligan is becoming the official MTG Mulligan
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-04 4:06 am 

Joined: 2014-Sep-13 7:28 am
Age: Elder Dragon
^ Yea, i'm wondering why the RC is mentioning they are thinking about it. They did away with the separate mulligan.

Errr, i typed this, but it was confirmed we are having London Mulligan in commander as of yesterday on Twitter.


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