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 Post subject: Re: "Unban card X... I'd really like to play with it!"
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-17 1:45 am 

Joined: 2019-Jun-05 11:49 pm
Age: Drake
Segrus wrote:
CowsCowsCows wrote:
Segrus wrote:
It isn't very nice to edit a past comment to add thoughts without indicating what the additions were, since I clearly responded to the comment before the edit was made. It's a bit dishonest when having a discussion in this form.


I was in the middle of editing some grammatical mistakes when you posted your comment. You can see that I finished editing at 3:02 and your comment was made at 3:00. Please don’t go around accusing people of being dishonest unless you have a damn good reason for it.

The following was added after I commented:

"As a large company WoTC would have the resources to gather more accurate and effective data in order to create a more efficient banlist that better reflects the majority of EDH players."

That's not fixing a grammatical error. The comment I saw started on the sentence following this.


I started editing before you posted your comment. Do you really have such a stick up your ass that this bothers you this much? That’s pathetic.


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 Post subject: Re: "Unban card X... I'd really like to play with it!"
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-17 1:49 am 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
Being insulting towards me doesn't make it any better. Perhaps walk away for awhile and we'll both call it even.

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 Post subject: Re: "Unban card X... I'd really like to play with it!"
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-17 1:51 am 

Joined: 2019-Jun-05 11:49 pm
Age: Drake
Segrus wrote:
Being insulting towards me doesn't make it any better. Perhaps walk away for awhile and we'll both call it even.


You must be fun at parties. Try not to choke while you’re sucking your own dick.


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 Post subject: Re: "Unban card X... I'd really like to play with it!"
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-17 5:01 am 
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Joined: 2008-Mar-24 12:14 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Oakland, CA
CowsCowsCows wrote:
Viperion wrote:
100% predictable response. Get some self awareness and come back.

Look I’m all for more communication between the rules committee and players and personally wish there was a better platform for community feedback too but at the end of the day this is a card game we don’t need to be at each other’s throats here haha.

CowsCowsCows wrote:
You must be fun at parties. Try not to choke while you’re sucking your own dick.

Do you suffer from multiple personalities?

In seriousness, please try to be civil here. I'm only somewhat offended by your particular choice of language, but more importantly the sentiment is unwarranted and obviously contributes nothing toward good discussion on these forums.


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 Post subject: Re: "Unban card X... I'd really like to play with it!"
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-17 7:37 am 

Joined: 2019-Jun-06 6:25 am
Age: Drake
(I horribly mangled the formatting on this quote pls ignore)

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Last edited by paragon_deku on 2019-Jun-17 11:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: "Unban card X... I'd really like to play with it!"
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-17 9:04 am 

Joined: 2012-Apr-11 7:17 am
Age: Elder Dragon
First off chill with that if you want to be taken at all seriously in a discussion.

CowsCowsCows wrote:
People on message boards represent an extremely small percentage of the total EDH population. My point is that just interacting with people who use old forums dedicated to EDH isn’t enough outreach.I think the CAG is a step in the right direction though. Hopefully it lets more people express their opinions so the RC can be representative of a wider branch of the community.
What specifically could they do, in your opinion, to make sure they 'represent a wider branch of the community'.

Secondarily to that, why is representing more people a better plan?

EDH existed before a lot of those people even took up Magic, and has been historically popular. Why should it change based on the input you seek?

Quote:
Also I’m totally in favor of a stronger relationship with WoTC. Personally I wish WoTC themselves had control over the banlist, or at least a lot more of an involvement in it.

You are aware one of the people on the RC is employed there? And most of the RC has long-standing relationships with the company and people in it? There is bi-directional communication.

CowsCowsCows wrote:
As a large company WoTC would have the resources to gather more accurate and effective data in order to create a more efficient banlist that better reflects the majority of EDH players.
How would WotC gather data on a format that is not, and is not interned to be, played competitively? Where the majority of games take place outside stores, let alone with anyone data collecting.

What would a ban list that "reflects the majority of EDH players" be trying to accomplish? How would that list be adjusted?

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 Post subject: Re: "Unban card X... I'd really like to play with it!"
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-17 9:46 am 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
CowsCowsCows wrote:
Also for what it’s worth I would love to see Emrakul unbanned it’s a great iconic card and a lot of fun to play with.

I find it very hard to take you seriously when you post things like this. Emrakul made EDH miserable for a while before it was mercifully expunged from the format. "Who can Bribery the most Emrakuls" is not a fun game. If people were only hard-casting it, it would be annoying but probably not ban-requiring. But the simple fact is it was cheated into play far too early far too often, and appeared in around 90% of decks I saw at the time thanks to being colorless and OPAF.

All of the no forever to unbanning the spaghetti monster.

Segrus wrote:
and I believe in the past has been against formats with >2 players.

Did MaRo oppose things like Archenemy and Battlebond?

Segrus wrote:
Maro, the biggest figure in design and development, historically has hated color identity

Does he actually hate Color ID, or just the fact that his pet mechanic doesn't work the way he wants it to?

CowsCowsCows wrote:
Didn’t members of the RC design commander?

Sort of. The history is more complicated than that.

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 Post subject: Re: "Unban card X... I'd really like to play with it!"
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-17 10:00 am 

Joined: 2014-Jul-26 11:35 am
Age: Elder Dragon
In regards to the "WOTC should be in charge" part of this discussion, it is worth considering the history of EDH to this point.

EDH started because a few judges thought it would be fun, it evolved over many years and took on a life of it's own to become as popular as it is now. WOTC has tried with basically no success whatsoever to create similar formats, including generating a separate 1v1 banlist on MTGO and introducing brawl, neither of which took off.

Based on the evidence, the RC has been doing a good job and making significant changes to a proven formula seems unwise. I understand why it's so hard to take things off the banlist, because we have a lot to lose if it's becomes broken and only a small amount to gain. There is a saying about things that aren't broken and the desire to fix them.

WOTC are also historically much happier to make changes in order to "shake things up", whereas the RC lean on "these are our guidelines, if you're unhappy with them, then agree with your group to do whatever you want". For competitive formats that are solved it makes sense to shake things up, but commander isn't "solved" as far as I can tell. The RC uses a casual approach to a casual format, WOTC doesn't really do casual, and usually when they try, casual equates to worse (see planeswalker decks for reference)

TLDR: WOTC is historically good at designing cards and competitive play, the RC is historically good at designing a long lasting casual mtg variant that has broad appeal. Let them do the things they are good at.

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Last edited by specter404 on 2019-Jun-17 10:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: "Unban card X... I'd really like to play with it!"
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-17 10:01 am 

Joined: 2019-Jun-05 11:49 pm
Age: Drake
MRHblue wrote:
First off chill with that if you want to be taken at all seriously in a discussion

Don’t tell me what to do
………………..../´¯/)
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…………./´¯/’…’/´¯¯`·¸
………./’/…/…./……./¨¯\
……..(‘(…´…´…. ¯~/’…’)
………\……………..’…../
……….”…\………. _.·´
…………\…………..(
…………..\………….\…


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 Post subject: Re: "Unban card X... I'd really like to play with it!"
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-17 10:04 am 

Joined: 2014-Jul-26 11:35 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Sid the Chicken wrote:
Does he actually hate Color ID, or just the fact that his pet mechanic doesn't work the way he wants it to?

Hate is a little strong, but this is what he has said on it:
https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/39498314157/its-unfortunate-that-extort-cant-be-played-in

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 Post subject: Re: "Unban card X... I'd really like to play with it!"
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-17 10:59 am 

Joined: 2012-Mar-31 11:52 am
Age: Elder Dragon
CowsCowsCows wrote:
MRHblue wrote:
First off chill with that if you want to be taken at all seriously in a discussion

Don’t tell me what to do
………………..../´¯/)
………………..,/¯../
………………../…./
…………./´¯/’…’/´¯¯`·¸
………./’/…/…./……./¨¯\
……..(‘(…´…´…. ¯~/’…’)
………\……………..’…../
……….”…\………. _.·´
…………\…………..(
…………..\………….\…

Ok that's just funny. Completely unnecessary and you probably lost whatever respect you may have had along with anyone bothering to give you the time of day moving forward, but I still chuckled.


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 Post subject: Re: "Unban card X... I'd really like to play with it!"
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-17 11:02 am 

Joined: 2012-Mar-31 11:52 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Back to the real (tangential) discussion, WotC won't take over the format because their employees are already stretched thin, and it isn't good practice to pile even more on their plate. And managing the format is hardly a full time job. So why pay people to do it when you already have someone doing it(extremely well) for free?


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 Post subject: Re: "Unban card X... I'd really like to play with it!"
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-17 11:46 am 

Joined: 2019-Jun-06 6:25 am
Age: Drake
cryogen wrote:
CowsCowsCows wrote:
MRHblue wrote:
First off chill with that if you want to be taken at all seriously in a discussion

Don’t tell me what to do
………………..../´¯/)
………………..,/¯../
………………../…./
…………./´¯/’…’/´¯¯`·¸
………./’/…/…./……./¨¯\
……..(‘(…´…´…. ¯~/’…’)
………\……………..’…../
……….”…\………. _.·´
…………\…………..(
…………..\………….\…

Ok that's just funny. Completely unnecessary and you probably lost whatever respect you may have had along with anyone bothering to give you the time of day moving forward, but I still chuckled.

Respect on a card game forum, o I am laffin.

But seriously, earlier I mentioned how worldfire can create memorable games because top decking to victory ends up being a common theme in games I remember. The comment I tried to mention it in had terrible formatting since I accidentally put what I wanted to say in the middle of a quote. My mistake.

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 Post subject: Re: "Unban card X... I'd really like to play with it!"
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-17 12:12 pm 

Joined: 2012-Mar-31 11:52 am
Age: Elder Dragon
This may come as a shock to you, but if you want the people you are trying to reach to respect you, then you need to show that you are someone who respects others. You act like this is some incognito place where no one has an identity, but many of us have been here for years and have earned a reputation as people who have thought-out posts, try to help newer users, and generally try to make this a welcoming forum. We even manage to disagree with the RC quite frequently.

But the attitude and sarcasm you have, similarly to what Cows is displaying, will get you nowhere if your goal isnto.try.and be heard by the RC. If you just want to "tell the man how you feel" or get your internet cred and show us how edgy you are, then go right ahead if it makes you feel any better.


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 Post subject: Re: "Unban card X... I'd really like to play with it!"
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-17 12:26 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
Sid the Chicken wrote:
Segrus wrote:
and I believe in the past has been against formats with >2 players.

Did MaRo oppose things like Archenemy and Battlebond?

Segrus wrote:
Maro, the biggest figure in design and development, historically has hated color identity

Does he actually hate Color ID, or just the fact that his pet mechanic doesn't work the way he wants it to?

I wish I had pulled the source when I read it. I like specter404's link to his tumblr, since Maro suggests he's said more on the subject in other places ("as I’ve gone on record as saying") and I remember reading him being harsher. I won't pretend I have a direct quote on hand for this.

ANYWAY, having gone back and reread most of this thread, I actually do recall playing Biorhythm in a 60-card, wild west deck against friends. It probably wasn't a very good deck, but I did get to play Biorhythm one time...and it wasn't as fun as I'd hoped. Nobody was upset by the card seeing play, I just distinctly recall nobody finding it very cool. In Commander, I don't see it adding much to the format, based on that experience. It probably wouldn't do much harm so I see it kind of a toss-up.

I feel like I should be adding more to this, but most of the discussion on the 'big' spells of the banlist so far has been quite detailed and I'd only do it injustice.

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