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 Post subject: Re: What has changed since Ugin was printed?
AgePosted: 2019-Jul-10 7:26 am 

Joined: 2014-Sep-13 7:28 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Magefire wrote:
For example, Iona does not win turn 3. Painter's Servant does. It does not make sense to ban Iona and not keep Painter's Servant banned.

It isn't about what wins, and that combo doesn't even 'win'. It kills one player per turn if you're doing nothing else. It isn't even cEDh power level out of the gate, it's pretty sketchy.

Magefire wrote:
Am I really supposed to take you guys seriously when you won't ban Lab Maniac or Food Chain, won't unban Recurring Nightmare, and think its appropriate to unban something worse than Iona?

I mean, you don't have to take them seriously. I often think they make little sense and are inconsistent. But can you not tell they aren't banning competitively viable cards, but cards that are problematic to an average user? LabMan isn't close to bannable under the current guidelines or ban list. It's not even remotely a problem for a casual players, is it? I don't even like him in cedh that much anymore.

Magefire wrote:
Sheldon and the rules committee should never forget that just because they are in a position of power it doesn't mean they actually are an authority.

Uhhh, even when i don't like it, yes they are.

Magefire wrote:
Wizards creates more and more Tier 1 rank commanders that require more and more expensive decks to run.

In what way has the cost gone up?

Magefire wrote:
Sooner than later you'll have to address cEDH as being the definition of the meta - that should have been abundantly clear back when cards like Derevi and Atraxa were printed.

But it's not. There are clearly more casual players than there are cEDH players.
Also, fuck cEDH players. I play cEDH at weeklies and regularly am up to date on the subreddit but it's literally a group of people who came to a format that wasn't designed for highly tuned spike decks and they are left wanting. There isn't going to be a way to please both.

Magefire wrote:
Never listen to casuals, kids, especially if they account for 1% of all the posts on an entire message board - it just means they like listening to themselves.

Honestly, what does this even mean?

Magefire wrote:
Really that just goes back to what I'm saying about casual players not being the ones making rules restricting the real players.

People who go around telling others they aren't real players, are the ones who aren't real players. Everyone just wants to enjoy themselves. Where are your parents, child? Have some manners.

Magefire wrote:
If casuals can make any rules they want around the table anyway then there is really no reason to make any rules for them at all

But people can't. It's not realistic to make everyone become their own game designers and it's not realistic to say "we have no rules".

Magefire wrote:
and all rulings should be focused on competitive play like in Modern

Why is that? Any particular reason or do you just say things?

Magefire wrote:
which in turn means the sole criteria for banning cards should be based on what conditions it makes you win under on turns 3, 4 or 5.

It's sickly amusing that you act like you know so much but this is simply false and a made up fiction in your mind. Stop coming up in here being a mental peasant just because you can't handle your emotions in a healthier manner. I can help you with your lack of modern ban knowledge, though, even if i can't help you with your toxic attitude:

WOTC B&R Lists wrote:
One key to the continued health of Magic is diversity. It is vitally important to ensure that there are multiple competitive decks for the tournament player to choose from. Why? If there were only a single viable deck to play, tournaments would quickly stagnate as players were forced to either play that deck or a deck built specifically to beat it. In addition, different players enjoy playing different types of decks. If there are plenty of viable options to play, there will be more players at more tournaments.
....
Cards are usually banned from play if they enable a deck or play style that heavily skews the play environment. What does that mean? If the card were legal, a competitive player either must be playing it, or must be specifically targeting it with his or her own strategies.


https://magic.wizards.com/en/game-info/ ... restricted

Tl;dr - diversity, not "what wins on/by turn 4".


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 Post subject: Re: What has changed since Ugin was printed?
AgePosted: 2019-Jul-10 8:02 am 

Joined: 2012-Apr-11 7:17 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Magefire wrote:
Hi, I've been playing Magic since 1999 [sic]

Welcome to the forums. Posts like that get you off on a foot not worth being on.
Have a nice day

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niheloim wrote:
No, I think he's right. I'm just all butt-hurt over prophet.


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 Post subject: Re: What has changed since Ugin was printed?
AgePosted: 2019-Jul-10 9:09 am 
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Joined: 2012-Feb-07 4:15 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Sovarius wrote:
But can you not tell they aren't banning competitively viable cards, but cards that are problematic to an average user?
This quote needs to be stickied on every Rules Discussion thread. It's becoming clearer and clearer to me that people are intentionally and willingly misunderstanding this point. They take "I'm not trying to do X" and pretend what was said is "I'm too incompotent to do X".

I would make a joke about something along the lines of this board having been temporarily confused with Reddit, but even the average reddit comment is more nuanced and open to reasonable discussion. And less saturated with baseless insults.

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 Post subject: Re: What has changed since Ugin was printed?
AgePosted: 2019-Jul-10 10:03 am 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
Sheldon wrote:
PS + Ugin isn't really worse than Jokulhaups/Obliterate and it costs more mana.

Except PS + Ugin can basically Armageddon+ every turn for the rest of the game.

Sheldon wrote:
Another major argument was that in order to do bad stuff with PS, you'd have to play cards that you wouldn't otherwise be playing.

Except when it combines in poisonous ways with your general. Making Teysa and Llawan into "You never have creatures again unless you find a way to answer this" is definitely in that column.

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 Post subject: Re: What has changed since Ugin was printed?
AgePosted: 2019-Jul-10 2:14 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Feb-07 4:15 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Sid the Chicken wrote:
Sheldon wrote:
Another major argument was that in order to do bad stuff with PS, you'd have to play cards that you wouldn't otherwise be playing.

Except when it combines in poisonous ways with your general. Making Teysa and Llawan into "You never have creatures again unless you find a way to answer this" is definitely in that column.

Llawan is cards you wouldn't otherwise be playing.

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