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A strange question about banding and trample
http://mtgcommander.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=19221
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Author:  crh1985 [ 2019-Aug-13 2:57 am ]
Post subject:  A strange question about banding and trample

I was put in a position where is was to my benefit to take damage and wanted to know if it was allowed

I had a 1/1 creature with banding and a 7/7 creature

My opponent (in question) has a 8/8 creature with trample and first strike

Is if he attacks and I block with both my creatures and I just assign the damage to me as trample in first strike combat and have my creatures kill it on normal combat or is that not allowed?

Author:  Inkeyes22 [ 2019-Aug-13 3:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A strange question about banding and trample

Short answer: no

The damage has to be assigned to the creatures first before any damage can be assigned to the defending player and the 8 damage is only enough to kill the 1/1 and 7/7 unless the attacking creature has deathtouch.

702.19b. The controller of an attacking creature with trample first assigns damage to the creature(s) blocking it. Once all those blocking creatures are assigned lethal damage, any remaining damage is assigned as its controller chooses among those blocking creatures and the player or planeswalker the creature is attacking. When checking for assigned lethal damage, take into account damage already marked on the creature and damage from other creatures that's being assigned during the same combat damage step, but not any abilities or effects that might change the amount of damage that's actually dealt. The attacking creature's controller need not assign lethal damage to all those blocking creatures but in that case can't assign any damage to the player or planeswalker it's attacking.

Here is the relevant portion for blocking with banding:

702.21j During the combat damage step, if an attacking creature is being blocked by a creature with banding, or by both a [quality] creature with “bands with other [quality]” and another [quality] creature, the defending player (rather than the active player) chooses how the attacking creature’s damage is assigned. That player can divide that creature’s combat damage as he or she chooses among any number of creatures blocking it. This is an exception to the procedure described in rule 510.1c.
702.21k During the combat damage step, if a blocking creature is blocking a creature with banding, or both a [quality] creature with “bands with other [quality]” and another [quality] creature, the active player (rather than the defending player) chooses how the blocking creature’s damage is assigned. That player can divide that creature’s combat damage as he or she chooses among any number of creatures it’s blocking. This is an exception to the procedure described in rule 510.1d.

Author:  crh1985 [ 2019-Aug-13 3:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A strange question about banding and trample

Thx

Author:  Carthain [ 2019-Aug-13 4:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A strange question about banding and trample

Yeah, you can have it assign all 8 damage to a single creature, so the remaining one can hit it back -- although in the situation you described, it wouldn't be enough to kill the attacking creature as it has first strike. (note, in that situation you also take 0 damage.)

Author:  crh1985 [ 2019-Aug-13 6:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A strange question about banding and trample

Ya I know that

when a Darksteel Myr with flying and with Baton of Morale on the field is a group threat, I know thing are good

Author:  Carthain [ 2019-Aug-13 6:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A strange question about banding and trample

That is exactly the style I like to play :D

Author:  Kemev [ 2019-Aug-13 7:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A strange question about banding and trample

All questions about banding are strange :)

Author:  tarnar [ 2019-Aug-19 4:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A strange question about banding and trample

I have a blanket answer to all rules questions about banding.

"Please let's just not play cards with banding."

Author:  Spectrar Ghost [ 2019-Aug-19 6:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A strange question about banding and trample

tarnar wrote:
I have a blanket answer to all rules questions about banding.

"Please let's just not play cards with banding."


Baton of Morale is amusing in the right deck. That is all.

Author:  specter404 [ 2019-Aug-21 9:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A strange question about banding and trample

The essence of banding is simple, the amount of text required to explain it in the rules is not.

Any creature with banding, plus one creature without banding can be assigned together as a band when you attack or block. They remain individual permanents and don't share abilities.
If any part of a band is blocked, the whole band is blocked. If one part of the band is "removed from combat" the rest of the band continues as normal.
When attacking with a band, you decide how any blockers damage is assigned instead of the defending player.
When blocking with a band, you decide how the attackers damage is assigned instead of the attacking player.

The part that always makes it look particularly confusing is the fact that the refer to regular banding as well as bands with... (eg bands with soldiers) in the same rules, and it just reads incredibly awkwardly.

The question from the OP is answered by asking, could the attacking player normally have chosen to assign no damage the to blocking creatures and all to the player using trample. The answer is obviously no, and so goes the answer for when the creatures have banding. People over-complicate it, banding doesn't change any of the rules about how combat damage can be assigned, only who is making the choice.

Author:  MrMoustache [ 2019-Aug-22 5:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A strange question about banding and trample

specter404 wrote:
Any creature with banding, plus one creature without banding can be assigned together as a band when you attack or block.

Almost. Only one blocker for a particular attacking creature needs to have banding in order for all of the blockers for that attacking creature to be in a band. This is the other confusing part of banding, where it works slightly differently between an attacking band and a blocking band.

specter404 wrote:
banding doesn't change any of the rules about how combat damage can be assigned, only who is making the choice.

This is also not quite correct. If I attack with three 2/2 creatures in a band, and my opponent blocks them with a 3/3, I can divide the damage so that each of my 2/2s takes 1 damage and all three survive.

Author:  specter404 [ 2019-Aug-25 11:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A strange question about banding and trample

Right, well I'm just going back to the 'banding is friggen weird camp' and will stay there until it comes up and I have to work it out.

Author:  Shoe [ 2019-Aug-26 12:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A strange question about banding and trample

MrMoustache wrote:
This is the other confusing part of banding, where it works slightly differently between an attacking band and a blocking band.


i would totally be ok with them lining up how attacking and blocking bands were created as a functional change if they would bring it back. i heart banding.

Author:  Melriken [ 2019-Aug-26 1:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A strange question about banding and trample

specter404 wrote:
The question from the OP is answered by asking, could the attacking player normally have chosen to assign no damage the to blocking creatures and all to the player using trample. The answer is obviously no, and so goes the answer for when the creatures have banding. People over-complicate it, banding doesn't change any of the rules about how combat damage can be assigned, only who is making the choice.

Actually it does, it completely ignores the ordering rules from M10. A pair of 5/5s blocking an 8/8 can each take 4 and not die... that isn’t possible without banding.

Author:  Melriken [ 2019-Aug-26 2:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A strange question about banding and trample

Shoe wrote:
MrMoustache wrote:
This is the other confusing part of banding, where it works slightly differently between an attacking band and a blocking band.


i would totally be ok with them lining up how attacking and blocking bands were created as a functional change if they would bring it back. i heart banding.

It would probably be better to remove blocking bands entirely when bringing it back, the game works better when attacking is encouraged (because the net balance favors the defender)

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