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A silver border ban list
http://mtgcommander.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=19222
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Author:  crh1985 [ 2019-Aug-13 3:42 am ]
Post subject:  A silver border ban list

I got bored a few weeks back and made this list. I made it so if they allow them again there are more cards that can’t be played for balance and game integrity (like more decks and so on)

Effects other games
Double Dip
Double Take
Double Cross
Double Deal
Double Play
Ass Whuppin’
Ghazbán Ogress
Gus

Damage cards (any players)
Blacker Lotus
Chaos Confetti
Nerf War
Ol' Buzzbark
Goblin Sleigh Ride

Being a general nuisance
Knight of the Hokey Pokey
Mesa Chicken
Bureaucracy
Ashnod’s Coupon
Clay Pigeon
Emcee
Loose Lips
Working Stiff
Red-Hot Hottie
Shoe Tree
Gimme Five
Defective Detective
Sly Spy (C) (Loses a Finger)
Subcontract
Better Than One
Kindslaver

“Possibly” better then banned card
Ones More with Feeling
Mine, Mine, Mine!
Enter the Dungeon
The Countdown is at One

“Possibly” to good
Free-for-All
Mirror Mirror
Staying Power
Richard Garfield Ph.D.
Infernal Spawn of Infernal Spawn of evil
Mox Lotus
R&D Secret Lair
World-Bottling Kit
Rules Lawyer
Spike, Tournament Grinder
Modular Monstrosity
Gifts Given
Magical Hacker

1/2 mana, attack, toughness, or damage
Bosom Buddy
Cardpecker
Cheap Ass
Little Girl
Save Life
Avatar of Me
Flaccify
Smart Ass
Bad Ass
Necro-Impotence
Vile Bile
Wet Willie of the Damned
Assquatch
Dumb Ass
Mon’s Goblin Waiter
Punctuate
Sauté
Fat Ass
Fraction Jackson
Stone-Cold Basilisk
Supersize
City of Ass
Just Desserts (best place)


And a small rule

Add rule to color identity
Is a token enters play as a non magic color it is the color of your commander (cards like “sword of Dungeons & Dragon” or “Balloon Game”)

Look over the list and tell me it there is any card I missed or needs to be added

Edit added Ol' Buzzbark to “Damage cards (any players)”
Removed Stop That & Magical Hacker
Readded Magical Hacker
Removed “Assemble Contraption cards“ after finding out “Minimum of Fifteen Contraption“
Removed Toy Boat, Added Goblin Sleigh Ride to “Damage cards (any players)”

Author:  Marit Lage [ 2019-Aug-13 10:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A silver border ban list

I've played with Stop That!, Infernal Spawn of Infernal Spawn of Evil, and Modular Monstrosity. They're more or less fine. Stop That! is mostly just cute discard that's mana hungry. Infernal Spawn has a limiter on the damage, and 2 damage is mostly just a cute extra thing you can do. Modular Monstrosity quickly reaches a point where you'll forget or it'll get nuked.

Half damage cards that only hit creatures are also fine, since the function the same as the number before the fraction.

Oh, and you should be required to play contraption cards in un-edh. Makes for great fun, honestly.

Author:  HoffOccultist [ 2019-Aug-13 11:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A silver border ban list

When the "silver border experiment" happened a couple years back, Nerf War was the card I was most concerned about due to the potential for damage.

The card with the second most potential for damage, in my view, was Ol' Buzzbark. I'd rather not have a number of dice crashing down onto the table, especially with the chance they land on edges (which would basically be replicating someone tapping a card with their fingernail, which can already leave indents). Even without landing on edges, I don't want solid chunks of material falling onto my stuff, thanks but no thanks.

Author:  Willbender [ 2019-Aug-14 6:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A silver border ban list

Ban Nerf war and Ol' Buzzbark, for the reasons stated above. I'd also definitively allow contraptions, as well. None of them have effects that are problematic for play, and they're all fairly weak, so there's no reason not to include them.

crh1985 wrote:
Add rule to color identity
Is a token enters play as a non magic color it is the color of your commander (cards like “sword of Dungeons & Dragon” or “Balloon Game”)

Why? Commander doesn't limit you to permanents of your commander's CI, so why would these matter? Or are you really that concerned they'll break Bloom Tender?

Author:  Strato Incendus [ 2019-Aug-14 11:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A silver border ban list

Respect for all your work, that looks pretty well-thought-out. To approach the whole silver-bordered matter a little more carefully, I thought how about we start with a silver-border legality list rather than a ban list? Meaning silver-bordered cards remain banned unless they are on that list.

To start of small, I'd suggest cards that don't behave any differently than regular Magic cards - things like Uktabi Kong and Target Minotaur.

More importantly, though, most Contraptions also just contain regular Magic abilities, except for the couple that involve dice-rolling. Contraptions might actually be fun, or even the theme of an entire Commander deck. I found it a bit lazy from MaRo, who had pledged to find a use for Contraptions during his lifetime at Wizards ever since the creation of Steamflogger Boss, that he just eventually relegated this task to an Un-set.

So I don't see why, of all things possible, Contraptions would have to be excluded from Commander by default? ;) Especially given that Steamflogger Boss is actually legal in all Eternal formats.

With half-mana and half-damage etc., I can see the point - but still, if these cards behave normal otherwise, Donkey tribal should totally be a thing! :)

I mean, if you get one of your opponents to 20.5 Commander damage and then lose, that's simply your fault for putting too much half-damage stuff in your deck! :mrgreen:

Author:  specter404 [ 2019-Aug-15 12:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A silver border ban list

I would quite like a silver bordered list to work. It is possible that Strato is right and that it needs to be a un-banned list as opposed to a banned list, an un-unbanned list if you will. (un-allowed list? un-playable list? We'll work on it)

I disagree with the general nuisance card list, I think many of those silly things are what people enjoy about un-sets. Bureaucracy is probably the exception mostly because the consequence of failure is quite severe. I don't love ashnod's coupon but some people do.

Author:  MrMoustache [ 2019-Aug-16 5:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A silver border ban list

Strato Incendus wrote:
More importantly, though, most Contraptions also just contain regular Magic abilities, except for the couple that involve dice-rolling. Contraptions might actually be fun, or even the theme of an entire Commander deck.

I actually built a Riku of Two Reflections Un-commander deck that is all about Contraptions. It pretty much plays every (non-black, non-white) card with the word "Contraption" on it, plus some black-bordered support cards and a handful of other cool silver-bordered cards, like Animate Library. It's a blast to play; fun without being overpowered. I did win one game I played where I assembled every single Contraption (those upkeeps were insane to keep track of, but it only took a couple turns after assembling them all to win).

I also play Sword of Dungeons and Dragons in my Nahiri, the Lithomancer deck. Again, not overpowered (in fact, less so than the swords it emulates), but lots of fun.

That being said, I wouldn't advocate that silver-bordered cards become a permanent fixture in Commander, but if your playgroup is OK with it (like mine is), they can add a lot of fun and spice to a game!

Author:  crh1985 [ 2019-Aug-18 7:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A silver border ban list

Marit Lage & Willbender Added Ol' Buzzbark did not see height in there, thx

WillbenderThe color is just for gameplay rules, I don’t want to look for all card that check colors. But using Bloom Tender as a example by itself is fine, but add Sunburst and it’s a bit more obvious where it could be over power here or there

Marit Lage And the reason Stop That! is on there it is a 1 black instant discard that recycles itself, if it wasn’t instant I would have keep it off

Strato Incendus & MrMoustache I don’t have a base problem with contraptions in general, but I was thinking people may make small 5 to 6 card decks so instead of forcing people to have all of them I was thinking of banning the cards

And I like the idea of a slow un-banning list I just put this out because the last list was rushed and was a mass to play

And the 1/2 damage and mana is more for keeping life keeping and mana count a little easier

MrMoustache sword of Dungeons & Dragon is not banned in this list in how you said the 4/4 dragon would be white instead of gold.

Specter404 when I put “general nuisance” together I was in the mind set of “can I play this card in a restaurant or in a card shop where other people are playing”

Author:  Marit Lage [ 2019-Aug-18 8:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A silver border ban list

Even if it's an instant, it's mostly obnoxious, but that doesn't qualify it for banning in a regular sense, so I doubt it'll qualify in an un-sense.

Author:  crh1985 [ 2019-Aug-19 2:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A silver border ban list

Funeral Charm, Haunting Hymn, Liliana’s Triumph, Sirocco, Torment of Venom, and Tsbao’s decree are all the cards (I could find) that are Instant and only one is a 1 drop Funeral Charm and I may not like, draw to discard with no hand

It is not a bad card the recycling effect is just a little to much is it was not for that I would not card it would just be another (less powerful) Funeral Charm

Author:  Carthain [ 2019-Aug-19 2:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A silver border ban list

Yeah, but your opponents control how often it 'recycles' .. sooo... they're in full control to limit/remove that ability. So penalizing the card on that basis seems odd at the very least.

Author:  Marit Lage [ 2019-Aug-19 6:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A silver border ban list

Unstable looks like a blast. Shenanigans everywhere. If only there was a casual-focused format dedicated to fun and silliness to play them in.

...

Hey, wait, we have one of those!

Until the next banned list announcement (January 15), silver-bordered cards are legal in Commander.

Yes, you heard that right. Dust off those Fruitcake Elementals and unleash the unsanity! It's time to celebrate Unstable.

The following cards are banned. They have rules that span multiple games, which is problematic for single-game multiplayer, are variants of cards already banned, or are too nightmarish for even us to contemplate:

Ashnod's Coupon
Double Cross
Double Deal
Double Dip
Double Play
Double Take
Enter the Dungeon
Magical Hacker
Mox Lotus
Once More With Feeling
R&Ds Secret Lair
Richard Garfield
Staying Power
Time Machine

You should be careful with the following cards. They work OK within the framework of Commander, so we aren't going to ban them, but are likely to give your playgroup a headache or lead to problematic games if you're not careful. Use them responsibly and remember that if you're playing cards your opponents don't enjoy playing against, they probably won't want to play with you any more:

Ach! Hans, Run!
Collector Protector
Incoming
Infernal Spawn of Infernal Spawn of Evil
Johnny, Combo Player
Mirror, Mirror
Topsy Turvy
Yet Another Aether Vortex

Personally, I recommend avoiding the Gotcha cards, as they're a fast way to lose friends, but they're not terribly broken in the wider context of silver borders, unless you use them to collude. But, if you're doing that, you've missed the point entirely.

Contraptions don't count against your 99. The correct thing to do is put one of every one of them into your contraption deck, but that's up to you. Make sure you have at least fifteen.

Finally, for all of you who are falling over themselves to play with Spike, please remember that Rule 13 exists, and she only functions under whatever rules the rest of your playgroup sets for her.

We hope people will use these cards in the spirit in which they are intended. Go, have a good time. And summon lots of squirrels. The Earl demands it.


Nerf War was added after this announcement, and honestly, you can probably take Magical Hacker off the list, unless someone here can think of something really degenerate you can do with it, cause I've got nothing.

Author:  crh1985 [ 2019-Aug-19 7:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A silver border ban list

Removed Stop That “under protest”
And removed Magical Hacker your right on that. I can think of a few things but nothing to big

Author:  spacemonaut [ 2019-Aug-19 7:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A silver border ban list

When Gotcha comes up, I see people single out Stop That as the one and only acceptable one -- because anyone who's flicking their cards deserves it. :P

(Of course in EDH there's a political component where one opponent can flick their cards so another can be targeted for discard, but as always everyone involved should be careful about playing too much with fire.)

Magical Hacker totally sets us up for awesome, epic, memorable fun games.

Totally endorse having both of those allowed in games.

Author:  Marit Lage [ 2019-Aug-19 7:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A silver border ban list

crh1985 wrote:
Removed Stop That under protest
And removed Magical Hacker your right on that. I can think of a few things but nothing to big

Have you read what the RC banned when they allowed silver bordered cards for a couple months a few years ago?

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