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 Post subject: Beacon of immortality
AgePosted: 2007-Nov-06 8:54 am 
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Joined: 2007-Jul-03 7:50 am
Age: Drake
Location: Belgium
unban?

i don't see the use of having this in the banned list, i don't mind my opponent playing this...

statements?

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AgePosted: 2007-Nov-06 12:07 pm 
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Joined: 2006-May-21 9:45 am
Age: Drake
A one card, one shot strategy to eighty life seems a little unfair.


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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2007-Nov-06 9:31 pm 

Joined: 2006-Jul-14 12:02 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Wherever I may roam
21 damage does the trick every time. Who cares about life totals?


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AgePosted: 2007-Nov-07 3:43 am 
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Joined: 2007-Jul-03 7:50 am
Age: Drake
Location: Belgium
i agree, if my opponent wants to build its deck around life gain, sure, go ahead :)
the one card in a 90 card deck isn't that abusive, at all...

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- it's only funny till somebody gets hurt, after that it's freakin' hilarious -
EDH Decks... too many ;) current favourite Hokori Prison


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 Post subject: Re: Beacon of immortality
AgePosted: 2007-Nov-07 4:56 pm 

Joined: 2007-Jun-04 6:34 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Gainsville, FL
Jayke wrote:
unban?

i don't see the use of having this in the banned list, i don't mind my opponent playing this...

statements?


If it's unbanned it's an auto-include in white, but I don't see it as being terrible, other than the fact that if multiple players play it multiple times it makes free-for-alls go even longer. But yes, I think you can safely unban it.

I think the play is to play it, counter it yourself with Guile in play. WEEEEEEE FUN!!!!


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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2007-Nov-08 11:48 am 
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Joined: 2006-May-09 4:17 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Calgary, AB
I'm inclined to agree here... it only encourages General usage and most of the time it's only going to gain ~20 life I think. When it does gain 30+ life, it probably puts a big bullseye on that player's head.

That said, it's worth lookin at why it's currently banned. It certainly fits bannin principle #1:

a) its power level is certainly much higher in EDH than in other formats.
b) its power level is higher than its mana cost would imply.

but lookin at (b) for a second: It's recursion ability aside (which I think we can agree isn't that relevant... anything which can break that can break something else better), the question is whether the magnitude or efficiency of Beacon is above the curve.

6 mana and a card to gain 20 life isn't much better than the ratio currently espoused by other best-of-breed lifegain cards.. a full blown 8:1 (for 40 life) is probably the best available, but not egregiously so.

Some of the best lifegain cards in the game are Congregation, Ancestral Tribute, and perhaps Phosphorescent Feast. Cards like Ancestor's Chosen can be considered as well, just for their magnitude and recurrability. These cards can be considered irritating -- but only in the same way Decree of Pain or Insurrection are irritaing... because they're actually relevant. They usually gain 20-30 life for 4 mana: let's say 6:1. In a bad situation, Congregation can gain 40+ life... but that's not necessarily a good thing.

Neither is the magnitude problematic from a game balance sense. A "Big Effect" format like EDH is subject to some degree of "damage inflation"... life totals aren't worth as much in a format where "I swing with three 6/6 dragons and a DSC" is a 'nice play'. 80-100 life is a problem that can be overcome by most decks given a little effort.

So IMO, Beacon could come off the list. I'll encourage Duncan and Sheldon to chime in with their experiences and counterarguments :)

G

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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2007-Nov-16 6:10 pm 
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Joined: 2006-May-24 10:14 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Tampa, FL, USA
Nope, unban it.

Ecco.

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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2007-Nov-19 7:59 am 
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Joined: 2006-May-23 3:11 pm
Age: Drake
I'm okay with unbanning it as well. It's a win-more card.


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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2007-Nov-24 10:41 pm 
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Joined: 2007-Aug-22 6:34 pm
Age: Dragon
Location: Pennsylvania
Any chance for an official rules change if enough people agree to unban it?

norbert88

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Sol'kanar the Swamp King
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Tolsimir Wolfblood
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Phelddagrif
Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind
Hakim, Loreweaver
Seizan, Perverter of Truth
Horde of Notions
Thelon of Havenwood
Zedruu the Greathearted
Lyzolda the Blood Witch

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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2007-Nov-26 2:15 pm 
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Joined: 2006-May-23 3:11 pm
Age: Drake
Gavin just announced the official unbanning in the Rules Announcements forum. You can now play Beacon again legally.


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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2007-Dec-14 5:31 pm 

Joined: 2007-Dec-12 7:36 pm
Age: Dragon
Just to throw my hat into the ring on the subject:

I cast this in an online game at opponent's EOT. I draw it the next turn (80+ cards left in deck). I NEVER cast it the rest of the game. Two generals almost killed me with the 21 damage rule. My life never went below 35 or so but I used other life gain too so the 40 life I gained mainly made me a target.

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