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 Post subject: Judgment Wishes
AgePosted: 2007-Dec-13 7:07 am 

Joined: 2006-Jun-07 2:06 pm
Age: Hatchling
Location: Zagreb, Croatia
Hi all,
I believe at one point in the rules it was written that Wishes could be used as normal tutors.
I've been reading rules yesterday and couldn't find that rule.
Did I misunderstood original rules or this rule was changed?

Thanks.

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AgePosted: 2007-Dec-13 9:31 am 
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Joined: 2007-Aug-25 2:26 am
Age: Dragon
Location: Rennes, Fr
The rules say :

The Judgement Wishes can only be used to wish for cards which began the game in the controller's deck, or the controller's general. No sideboard/wishboard is allowed.

So, if you meant "normal tutor" for tutoring cards outside the game but that began in your deck, you were right ;)

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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2007-Dec-13 1:09 pm 

Joined: 2006-Jun-07 2:06 pm
Age: Hatchling
Location: Zagreb, Croatia
no, I believe that at some point you could tutor cards form your deck (that are still in your deck).

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Q: If a Tim tims a Tim, can the timmed Tim tim the timming Tim before the Tim tims the timmed Tim?
-- Timmy, Power Gamer

A: Tim can tim the timmed tim in response to the other Tim timming it. Both Tims are destroyed.


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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2007-Dec-13 7:35 pm 

Joined: 2007-Dec-12 7:36 pm
Age: Dragon
Could anyone comment on why they are effectively banned?

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Online: Garza Zol, Venser, Sisay, Ghost Council


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AgePosted: 2007-Dec-14 5:38 am 
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Joined: 2007-Aug-25 2:26 am
Age: Dragon
Location: Rennes, Fr
1) They can't fetch cards in your deck. They are not errated in that sens for EDH. They are just fixed in order to fetch only cards that began the game in your deck (that's probably the thing you are thinking about).

2) They are not banned. You just have to remove cards (thanks to psychatog, stp, whatever...) before you play them...

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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2007-Dec-14 12:22 pm 

Joined: 2007-Jun-04 6:34 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Gainsville, FL
iceage4life wrote:
Could anyone comment on why they are effectively banned?


Although I'm not one of the guys who started the format or sits on the rules committee, my guess behind the logic is this: isn't there a point you just say 100 cards is enough? You mean you want a wishboard, too? How many cards should it be? 15? 30? 5?

When you get to build a deck chock full of silver bullets in a format that is (usually) multiplayer, you usually don't sideboard since you don't play a game 2 or 3; well, when we do in my playgroup, we just switch decks. Without a "sideboard" like in tournament magic, what your Wishes go looking for is stuff in the removed from game zone, such as your general, flashbacked spells, things removed via Withered Wretch or similar effects or suspended cards. They aren't really banned - Living Wish can be good if your general has been killed a bunch and it is cheaper to Wish+cast than to play from the RFG zone. I also play Burning Wish in a deck with a decent amount of pitch spells, the Delve guy and flashback.

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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2007-Dec-14 9:25 pm 

Joined: 2007-Dec-12 7:36 pm
Age: Dragon
Philatio wrote:
Without a "sideboard" like in tournament magic, what your Wishes go looking for is stuff in the removed from game zone, such as your general, flashbacked spells, things removed via Withered Wretch or similar effects or suspended cards. They aren't really banned - Living Wish can be good if your general has been killed a bunch and it is cheaper to Wish+cast than to play from the RFG zone. I also play Burning Wish in a deck with a decent amount of pitch spells, the Delve guy and flashback.


Its just that in normal casual magic the Wish cards play how they read. Also Living Wish for your general is only so-so for while you may save mana you're burning a card to do so. Guess it depends on deck if it can do so.

I'm not looking to rock the boat I just find Wishes fun (as they are printed). I was pretty much wondering why they were banned and seems its not for power reasons.

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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2007-Dec-19 9:29 pm 

Joined: 2007-Jun-04 6:34 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Gainsville, FL
iceage4life wrote:

Its just that in normal casual magic the Wish cards play how they read. Also Living Wish for your general is only so-so for while you may save mana you're burning a card to do so. Guess it depends on deck if it can do so.

I'm not looking to rock the boat I just find Wishes fun (as they are printed). I was pretty much wondering why they were banned and seems its not for power reasons.


Oh, definitely not for power reasons.

I dunno, my Captain Sissay gets tagged often enough before she goes active that at times I've run both Living and Glittering wishes in my build because I hate paying 8 mana over and over for a 4 cost general. And yeah, I play hasty effects for her, too. Sometimes other stuff randomly gets RFG'd - I got a Privileged Position back from an Altar's Light once, and that was pretty sweet. You spend a card, so it certainly isn't optimal, but certainly isn't illegal, either, if you think it makes the cut.

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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2007-Dec-20 12:24 am 
EDH Rules Committee
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Joined: 2006-May-09 4:17 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Calgary, AB
iceage4life wrote:
wondering why they were banned and seems its not for power reasons.


Unlimited wishes (ie: wishes for any card you actually "own") are inherently elitist... "my collection is bigger than yours, haha." And anyway, we don't want people carrying around large collections, or spending time going through their binder/collection looking for a silver bullet. So, we chose to avoid the problem entirely by removing corpulent wishing. Wishboards, like sideboards, were considered and rejected in favour of simplicity and consistency. 100 cards, no duplicates. Go. :)

Gavin

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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2007-Dec-21 9:48 am 

Joined: 2007-Dec-19 11:46 am
Age: Wyvern
Thats exactly how it should be.


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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2008-Jan-04 3:13 pm 

Joined: 2007-Dec-12 7:36 pm
Age: Dragon
Genomancer wrote:
iceage4life wrote:
wondering why they were banned and seems its not for power reasons.


Unlimited wishes (ie: wishes for any card you actually "own") are inherently elitist... "my collection is bigger than yours, haha." And anyway, we don't want people carrying around large collections, or spending time going through their binder/collection looking for a silver bullet. So, we chose to avoid the problem entirely by removing corpulent wishing. Wishboards, like sideboards, were considered and rejected in favour of simplicity and consistency. 100 cards, no duplicates. Go. :)

Gavin


So they are changed/banned because some people have better collections? That honestly doesn't make much sense to me.

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Paper Decks: Sisay, Oona, Intet, Soknar, Sharuum the Gegemon, Nath, Sir Shandlar of Eberyn (Peasent)
Online: Garza Zol, Venser, Sisay, Ghost Council


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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2008-Jan-05 2:02 am 

Joined: 2006-Jul-14 12:02 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Wherever I may roam
iceage4life wrote:
So they are changed/banned because some people have better collections? That honestly doesn't make much sense to me.


No...because it really isn't difficult for anyone to lay hands on 400+ different cards to lug around if they're playing a wish deck, and nobody wants to be in the game where the guy takes 10 minutes to make a selection each time it gets played. Come on, tell us, what is it you really want to do with it?


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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2008-Jan-05 1:54 pm 

Joined: 2007-Dec-12 7:36 pm
Age: Dragon
Nomad wrote:
No...because it really isn't difficult for anyone to lay hands on 400+ different cards to lug around if they're playing a wish deck, and nobody wants to be in the game where the guy takes 10 minutes to make a selection each time it gets played. Come on, tell us, what is it you really want to do with it?


Nothing silly, not looking through 400 cards to find the perfect answer. Maybe just a dozen or two cards that might be Echoing Truth, Cremate, etc.

I guess that banning them is fine but seems that just keeping them within reason works.

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Paper Decks: Sisay, Oona, Intet, Soknar, Sharuum the Gegemon, Nath, Sir Shandlar of Eberyn (Peasent)
Online: Garza Zol, Venser, Sisay, Ghost Council


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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2008-Jan-05 3:54 pm 

Joined: 2006-Jul-14 12:02 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Wherever I may roam
iceage4life wrote:
Nomad wrote:
No...because it really isn't difficult for anyone to lay hands on 400+ different cards to lug around if they're playing a wish deck, and nobody wants to be in the game where the guy takes 10 minutes to make a selection each time it gets played. Come on, tell us, what is it you really want to do with it?


Nothing silly, not looking through 400 cards to find the perfect answer. Maybe just a dozen or two cards that might be Echoing Truth, Cremate, etc.

I guess that banning them is fine but seems that just keeping them within reason works.


If the people you play with are fine with it, by all means use it there. But to me it sounds like an extra Demonic Tutor and not to the benefit of the game...


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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2008-Jan-14 2:27 am 

Joined: 2007-Oct-29 3:33 am
Age: Wyvern
it's real pity wishes are so underpowered with forbidden whishboard in edh!

Everybody agrees they are not overpowered, so I see no reason to forbid wishboards. Wishes are very fun to play, very fun to build around, even if you play 2 or 3 you'll hardly find more than 20-30 relevant targets. So if your oppenent is showing up with is entire collection just laugh at him because he is not able to select the 5 cards he will always be wishing for, and explain him the "spirit of this format".

I think players should be authorised showing up at the table with reasonably sized wishboard (I propose 25, 100/4) so that wishes can be played. To my mind it really looks compliant with the spirit of the format. I really hope I get a chance to see the rule updated some day so please please please think about it and support me if you share my opinion!!!


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