Login | Register


All times are UTC - 7 hours


It is currently 2019-Oct-18 6:32 am




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Nephilims
AgePosted: 2008-Jan-19 9:10 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2007-Sep-10 2:51 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Rittman, OH USA
I know they aren't legendary, but they are the ONLY cards in all of magic that could allow for 4-color decks.
I'd imagine it has been gone over time and time again, but they should really be considered.

Nephilims should be able to be used as Generals.

None of them are extremely broken in any sense, certainly no more than any other generals.
They open up more design space than the 3-color generals, and they also give more freedom because very quickly all the 5-color generals get taken in a playgroup.

Can serious consideration (outside of house rules of course) be given to them?
Or are they simply too problematic?

_________________
My card alter blog: The Phyrexian Renaissance


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2008-Jan-19 10:55 pm 
EDH Rules Committee
User avatar

Joined: 2007-Jan-05 12:58 am
Age: Elder Dragon
I doubt that they'd be problematic in any way. It's certainly true that none of them are broken in any way. It's just that they aren't legendary.

You mentioned yourself that five colour generals work, if you're looking for a four colour deck. The fact that all of the 5c generals get "quickly taken", though, seems wrong. There are seven 5c legends in Magic (Atogatog, Cromat, Horde of Notions, Scion of the Ur-Dragon and the three slivers), and I can't imagine any play group requiring more than that for main generals.

I just don't think it's necessary to put a specific 'nephilim rule' into the core rulebook.

_________________
Blog - Twitter


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2008-Jan-19 11:16 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2007-Sep-10 2:51 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Rittman, OH USA
Ban Ki-moon wrote:
I doubt that they'd be problematic in any way. It's certainly true that none of them are broken in any way. It's just that they aren't legendary.

You mentioned yourself that five colour generals work, if you're looking for a four colour deck. The fact that all of the 5c generals get "quickly taken", though, seems wrong. There are seven 5c legends in Magic (Atogatog, Cromat, Horde of Notions, Scion of the Ur-Dragon and the three slivers), and I can't imagine any play group requiring more than that for main generals.

I just don't think it's necessary to put a specific 'nephilim rule' into the core rulebook.
Actually there are eight. :) Karona, False God
But for a while (about a month or so), our playgroup (a total of about 13 players) had all 8 taken (we each have 2 reserved generals)

And anymore, yeah we just pretty much build whatever because we all know what everyone else plays.
But we are going to start allowing Nephilims because they do "legendary" things regardless of the fact that they aren't legendary.

That is my argument for them, they seem so legendary, even though they are not.
I kind of like the idea of being restricted to the 4-colors over the 5, makes deck building fun.

_________________
My card alter blog: The Phyrexian Renaissance


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2008-Jan-29 11:19 am 

Joined: 2007-Oct-14 9:28 am
Age: Wyvern
Ban Ki-moon wrote:
You mentioned yourself that five colour generals work, if you're looking for a four colour deck. The fact that all of the 5c generals get "quickly taken", though, seems wrong. There are seven 5c legends in Magic (Atogatog, Cromat, Horde of Notions, Scion of the Ur-Dragon and the three slivers), and I can't imagine any play group requiring more than that for main generals.


yawg07 wrote:
But for a while (about a month or so), our playgroup (a total of about 13 players) had all 8 taken (we each have 2 reserved generals)


If only there were some rule that prevented players from "reserving" generals so that anyone could play any generals, or legends that he wanted!

:)

Dan Bock

_________________
Dan Bock
DanABock@gmail.com


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2008-Jan-29 12:37 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2007-Sep-10 2:51 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Rittman, OH USA
Problem with that is we'll have people who will build decks using generals other people have.
So what do you do while you are playing? Those people can't really use their generals because one will kill the others.

_________________
My card alter blog: The Phyrexian Renaissance


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2008-Jan-31 6:14 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2006-May-23 3:11 pm
Age: Drake
yawg07 wrote:
Problem with that is we'll have people who will build decks using generals other people have.
So what do you do while you are playing? Those people can't really use their generals because one will kill the others.


If everyone is building multiple decks, it shouldn't be a problem for two people to each build (say) a Scion of the Ur-Dragon deck. They won't be able to both play them in the same game, but this can be solved by either having one of them back down gracefully and play another deck, or by having them sit at different games. There are thirteen of you - I'm guessing you're splitting into multiple tables anyway.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2008-Feb-01 3:31 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2007-Jul-03 7:50 am
Age: Drake
Location: Belgium
in rare cases you just ignore the legend rule for those players in the same game, which makes the game playable...

but i call those 'house rules'

_________________
- it's only funny till somebody gets hurt, after that it's freakin' hilarious -
EDH Decks... too many ;) current favourite Hokori Prison


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2008-Feb-01 1:44 pm 
EDH Rules Committee
User avatar

Joined: 2006-May-09 4:17 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Calgary, AB
I've tried in the past to make Nephilims an official exception for Generals... and I'd vote for it again. I agree they're a great fit.. and I think they're bizzare enough that they wouldn't lead to other "but the Nephilims aren't legendary, so Fungal Shambler should be allowed too!" It's somewhat akin to the old (and sometimes still used) "Bringer exception" IMO... but there would have to be fairly substantial community support voice for it to get it through.

G

_________________
Remember: Most legendary creatures have a gender, and most non-legendary ones don't! Use proper pronouns! ;)


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2008-Feb-01 3:29 pm 

Joined: 2008-Jan-25 2:34 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Houston
I have to admit, every time I flip through my trade binder and see a nephilim I think "Man, it would be cool to have this as an EDH general." I also agree with the "unique enough" point that Genomancer made.

_________________
Deadeye Navigator, Consecrated Sphinx, Prophet of Kruphix, Cyclonic Rift...be a pal and just don't play them.

* This symbol means it is a joke.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2008-Feb-01 3:39 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2006-May-21 9:45 am
Age: Drake
It would be really nice if in one of the upcoming sets they could release some four-coloured legendary creatures. It would be even better if they were Nephilims. (I might accept Changelings on a case by case basis!)

I wouldn't build a deck with any of the current Nephilims as generals, but I would certainly allow a player who's made one to play it.. as long it made good use of the Nephilim, was fun to play against/with, and not just for the colours, that is.

Blessing of The Nephilim ftw!


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2008-Feb-02 1:51 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2007-Sep-10 2:51 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Rittman, OH USA
The best explanation for them is that "They aren't Legendary, but they do Legendary things."

_________________
My card alter blog: The Phyrexian Renaissance


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2008-Feb-02 1:02 pm 

Joined: 2007-Jun-04 6:34 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Gainsville, FL
yawg07 wrote:
The best explanation for them is that "They aren't Legendary, but they do Legendary things."


Well, shit, if that's the criteria, I want Humility as my general. That's a pretty unique...er, Legendary... effect. And yes, I'm being sarcastic.

Just put them in a deck with a 5c general, people. And drop a color to handicap yourself if you really want to. Or just ask your local playgroup to let you use whatever as your general. Hell, I used Transguild Courrier as a general once so I could do sunburst-y things in an artifact deck (and use all the artifact lands) and my local playgroup was cool with it, but I didn't come advocating a rules errata on these boards for the card, claiming it should be made legendary because it's the only multicolor artifact creature. No one is going to object if you are playing a bad general or deck for fun - don't sweat it. The format is about fun, so just play friendly with your local group and be flexible and find out what playstyle works for all of you.

Eventually that Transguild Courier deck became a U/R deck because all the good artifact synergy is in those colors anyhow, and I just gave up on the sunburst sub-theme and the off-color artifact lands. Now it's a Jhoira deck and I like it more now that it isn't distracting itself trying to put round pegs in square holes for no good purpose.

_________________
Growing Darkness, taking Dawn; I was me, but now he is gone - Metallica, "Fade to Black"


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2008-Feb-06 10:01 pm 

Joined: 2006-Jul-14 12:02 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Wherever I may roam
Genomancer wrote:
I've tried in the past to make Nephilims an official exception for Generals... and I'd vote for it again. I agree they're a great fit.. and I think they're bizzare enough that they wouldn't lead to other "but the Nephilims aren't legendary, so Fungal Shambler should be allowed too!"


Well...don't know about that... We've seen requests to critique Questing Phelddagrif decks based on the Greek pre-release cards (not so easy to tell it ain't legendary), and the Sanskrit Fungal Shambler is in exactly the same boat...


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2008-Feb-07 3:16 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2007-Aug-25 2:26 am
Age: Dragon
Location: Rennes, Fr
Except that the nephilim open a new field of decks thanks to there 4 colors. (shambler and phelddagrif already have generals in their colors)

_________________
My Generals


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2008-Feb-07 3:21 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2008-Jan-18 10:03 am
Age: Drake
Location: Where the streets have no wraith
If Ink-Treader Nephilim were to be a general, I think the fun would be over soon enough. Just use a cantrip on him, and you'll draw half your deck. Pick out any combo you like, and play it for the win.

_________________
Image
Current EDH decks: Garza Zol, Kagemaro
Work in Progress: Isperia, Sek'Kuar


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 33 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: