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MTG Commander/Elder Dragon Highlander • View topic - lost commander control

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 Post subject: lost commander control
AgePosted: 2019-Aug-15 11:07 am 

Joined: 2015-Dec-16 3:48 am
Age: Hatchling
wouldn't e a review of this rule?
considering people use a mindslave in you, them using your own cards, exile your commander, you will lost its control and you usually don't be abble to recovery it


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 Post subject: Re: lost commander control
AgePosted: 2019-Aug-15 12:52 pm 

Joined: 2014-Jul-26 11:35 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Hi Arthur, I'm not 100% sure of your question but I'll do my best. Essentially I think you are asking for the person who physically owns the commander to be able to make the decision relating to their commander being put back into the command zone.

There are two problems with this, the first is that it doesn't work within the rules. There's no way I know of to write a rule that makes sense because "owner" is already defined in the comprehensive rules, and mindslaver gives control of that players choices as part of it's affect. The Commander rules committee have no power over the rules of Magic: The Gathering itself.

The second problem is that if your commander is being exiled through the use of a mindslaver effect, they you're playing with jerks or highly competitive people (I am NOT saying those are the same, just to be clear). Basically these people are going to do their thing regardless and tweaking some rules isn't going to dramatically change your experience of the game with them. Personally I would just not play with someone who thought that was a fun idea, not everyone has that luxury so the option you have is to talk to those players and agree on a local understanding that you cant exile someone's commander with mindslaver effects. It's a lot easier to explain that in person than it is to write a full rule for it.

If that doesnt work, then start playing a lot more sacrifice outlets. Phyrexian tower is a good one for black decks, and altar of dementia or phyrexian altar are both good choices for any deck. If you have one in play when you get targeted with the slaver you can sac your commander before your turn.

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 Post subject: Re: lost commander control
AgePosted: 2019-Aug-15 6:04 pm 

Joined: 2012-Oct-24 8:05 pm
Age: Drake
It's not that hard to write a rule to fix the issue. The command zone replacement rule (903.9) already has a weird, unique exception. Just tack on another one, like, "That permanent's owner decides whether to apply this replacement effect, even if another player is controlling them at the time. This is an exception to rule [whatever]."

The question is whether it's worth it to fix a rare situation that comes up with a few cards. I don't have strong feelings about that. It feels bad to get your commander exiled, or sent to the graveyard if you can't recover it. But it's probably not as bad as being locked out by Iona was, or the much more common situation of being knocked out of a game but having to wait for it to finish to play another.


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 Post subject: Re: lost commander control
AgePosted: 2019-Aug-15 9:31 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Sep-19 1:30 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
in order for this to come up, not only do you need to be Mindslavered, but there has to be a way to exile your commander on your turn that comes up. You also need to not see it coming if you have any options available to sacrifice your commander (depending on your mana available to recast). That's a lot of moving parts to line up. Honestly, it comes up seldom enough in natural play that I really don't think it's an issue, and not worth writing a new rule for.

If it does come up often enough to be an issue, someone's got to be building their deck with that specific result in mind - which, to be honest, is a lot less toxic than a lot of other options people could do to grief a player.

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 Post subject: Re: lost commander control
AgePosted: 2019-Aug-18 2:52 pm 

Joined: 2014-Jul-26 11:35 am
Age: Elder Dragon

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 Post subject: Re: lost commander control
AgePosted: 2019-Aug-19 12:28 am 

Joined: 2015-Sep-02 2:49 am
Age: Drake
Location: Connecticut
How much protection do Commander players need from anything bad happening to them? At some point, the social contract has to count for something, and if it isn’t suitable for a narrow corner case like controlling a player’s turn and arranging to exile the commander, then, truly, it isn’t suitable for anything at all. Building a contingency for an unavailable commander is smart building in general. It’s functionally similar to having your commander taxed to uncastability, a state nobody is clamouring to change the rules to prevent.


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 Post subject: Re: lost commander control
AgePosted: 2019-Aug-19 1:20 am 

Joined: 2015-Dec-22 4:41 am
Age: Drake

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 Post subject: Re: lost commander control
AgePosted: 2019-Aug-19 2:58 am 
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Joined: 2006-Dec-31 12:26 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Or you could just go a slightly different route: "When another player stops controlling your turn, if your commander is not on the battlefield and not in your library, you may move it to the command zone."

That leaves them with controlling your turn and shuffling it into your library to remove your access to your commander.


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 Post subject: Re: lost commander control
AgePosted: 2019-Aug-19 7:47 am 
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Joined: 2006-May-18 5:21 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
The answer is that it's sufficiently corner that it's not worth making the rules more complex over. It's also pretty antisocial at that point, so it tends to get culled out.


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 Post subject: Re: lost commander control
AgePosted: 2019-Aug-19 9:22 am 

Joined: 2014-Jul-26 11:35 am
Age: Elder Dragon

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 Post subject: Re: lost commander control
AgePosted: 2019-Aug-19 1:39 pm 

Joined: 2012-Oct-24 8:05 pm
Age: Drake


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 Post subject: Re: lost commander control
AgePosted: 2019-Aug-20 7:26 am 
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Joined: 2014-Jul-28 8:30 am
Age: Dragon
This is definitely the perfect place for the social contract. No need to change or add to the rules for something this narrow. It sucks to lose your commander, but in general, you should probably include a way for your deck to function without it in the first place...

If you're all-in on your commander (As with my janky deck), you essentially set yourself up to be a glass cannon. It's an inherent risk when building that type of deck. You accept it and move on when it backfires because ultimately it was a deck building choice that you made. Different decks come with different risks and rewards. They're part of the game.

Now, I'm not saying that the Mindslaver-exile-your-commander play is fun for anyone, but then it's on you, as a willing participant in this social format, to make an effort to either talk to the Mindslaver player or choose not to play with them. You have plenty of options that don't involve changing the rules.


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 Post subject: Re: lost commander control
AgePosted: 2019-Aug-20 11:27 am 

Joined: 2014-Jul-26 11:35 am
Age: Elder Dragon

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 Post subject: Re: lost commander control
AgePosted: 2019-Aug-21 11:39 am 

Joined: 2012-Oct-24 8:05 pm
Age: Drake


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 Post subject: Re: lost commander control
AgePosted: 2019-Aug-22 12:48 am 
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Joined: 2009-Jun-12 7:46 pm
Age: Elder Dragon

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