[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 379: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 379: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 379: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 379: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
MTG Commander/Elder Dragon Highlander • View topic - Cremation Revisited

Login | Register


All times are UTC - 7 hours


It is currently 2020-Jan-19 6:55 am




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 139 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 10  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Cremation Revisited
AgePosted: 2012-Apr-09 7:02 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2008-Mar-24 12:14 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Oakland, CA
LIST OF CARDS THAT PUNISH GRAVEYARD STRATEGIES

Traps - This category is for all the cards that can wait to reveal themselves in response to an unsuspecting opponent when they attempt to exploit their graveyard. Most of the situations in which having GY hate means the difference between winning and losing, this is the category you want. Cards from another category will at best only delay that GY combo going off or that Iona or that getting recurred.

Reactions - These are like traps except that they aren't hidden. They exist in plain view and your opponents are forced to try to play around them.

Initiatives - These are cards that don't typically function at instant speed but which empty graveyards (either completely empty or just one or two key cards) so that later graveyard-based spells will not be as threatening. Note that many of the cards in the above categories of Traps and Reactions can be used in this way; is a great example of a case where it's often correct to hold it in your hand so as not to let your opponents know you have it, then play it after a massive or something like that.

Deterrents - Every Deterrent is also a Reaction; it forces your opponents to play around it, but is worse than other Reactions (like ) because it doesn't have any lasting effect after it has been destroyed. It just buys time, which is far less meaningful in EDH than it is legacy (for example) because not only is the time it buys less because there are more players trying to find an answer for it, but even if it bought the same number of turns it would still be less significant because EDH games tend to take longer, making each EDH turn "worth" less than a legacy turn. The whole time that Leyline is sitting around while your opponents wait to destroy it, it's having a lasting impact on the cards that are going to graveyards. That said, Deterrents aren't all bad. They're pretty useful when your opponents have a narrow window to use their graveyard spells (for example when or or forces them to do so).

Tutors - These don't count as GY hate themselves, but I thought it would be worth including them in the list because they can make certain types of GY hate way more effective ()

Junk - These are awful as graveyard hate in this format and you really shouldn't play them, but they do get the job done, sometimes, maybe, if you're lucky.

Pseudohate - These cards are actually pretty good and you will probably see some of them a lot in the format, but other cards will generally be more efficient if you're specifically looking for graveyard hate.

Outclassed - These are better than Junk or Pseudohate, but they're just less efficient than other options in their respective colors.


Last edited by intreped on 2015-Oct-08 10:50 am, edited 20 times in total.

Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Cremation Revisited
AgePosted: 2012-Apr-09 7:58 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2008-Aug-15 9:31 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
I don't see Gaea's Blessing. That card + Loaming Shaman are my go-to GY hate in decks that feature a general that can tutor, due to their double use as recursion.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Cremation Revisited
AgePosted: 2012-Apr-09 8:04 pm 
EDH Rules Committee
User avatar

Joined: 2007-Jan-05 12:58 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Nice list. Really exhaustive, and great analysis of each card. I want to go and edit your post, though, and put in place of . I think that is also better than due to the draw (and also it protects you against mill combo i guess?). Another great trap card, that is unfortunately restricted due to its colours, is . I can't imagine playing a deck with those colours and not including that crazy diamond.

There's a class of cards, starting with , that work great as initiatives (liking this categorization thing you got going) in addition to being super powerful on their own. Not a lot of people really think of them as graveyard hate, but it's tough to lose to reanimator when you're playing a deck that loves its draw7s.

Finally, concluding with a nitpick, I think you're really underestimating . I love that card, and think of it like a black . Super cheap, never gets in the way, replaces itself, and gives you a small but really tangible benefit. Like Ponder it's sometimes hard to find room for it, but it's hardly ever wrong to play a copy.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Cremation Revisited
AgePosted: 2012-Apr-09 9:34 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2009-Feb-17 9:37 am
Age: Drake
Location: South Caroline
This was terribly useful. Thanks!

_________________
Jenara--Control-based aggro
Karrthus--Aggro Control/Red Rock
Karrador--Aggro Control/White Rock
Captain Sisay--Aggro Control


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Cremation Revisited
AgePosted: 2012-Apr-09 10:41 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2008-Mar-24 12:14 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Oakland, CA


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Cremation Revisited
AgePosted: 2012-Apr-10 3:22 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2010-Dec-13 6:01 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Washington D.C.

_________________
My decks on Tappedout.net


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Cremation Revisited
AgePosted: 2012-Apr-10 6:23 am 

Joined: 2010-Dec-14 4:04 pm
Age: Dragon
Location: Boston, MA
You have , but you are missing it's cousin . More mana, but more saprolings, and it will work if they only have 1 creature in the yard.

is a decent hate spell at instant speed that can be cycled if it won't be useful.

shuffles away a graveyard, while also tutoring for a creature or shuffling away a problem permanent.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Cremation Revisited
AgePosted: 2012-Apr-10 7:36 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2008-Mar-24 12:14 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Oakland, CA


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Cremation Revisited
AgePosted: 2012-Apr-10 8:22 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2011-Jan-16 5:36 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Toronto, ON
You missed one of my all-time favourites: . It's a fairly good trap, but can double as a tutor.

_________________
Check out my old column, Generally Speaking, at CommanderCast.com
http://www.commandercast.com/category/a ... y-speaking

Follow me on Twitter: @generalspeak


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Cremation Revisited
AgePosted: 2012-Apr-10 9:01 am 

Joined: 2011-Jul-12 2:32 pm
Age: Wyvern
I use Chainer, Dementia Master as a form of creature based graveyard hate since not only do I get to use the creatures I take with him against my opponents.. but if they try to take them back I can just sac him to remove the creatures from the game.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Cremation Revisited
AgePosted: 2012-Apr-10 7:16 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2008-Aug-15 9:31 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Gaea's BLESSING, not Gaea's Balance.

Get Reito Lantern on that list. It's also doubles as recursion in decks with tutor generals.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Cremation Revisited
AgePosted: 2012-Apr-11 2:23 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2010-Dec-13 6:01 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Washington D.C.
Two more cards to consider adding:
- slow use, but doubles as a blocker for fast generals
- lifelink zombies :)

_________________
My decks on Tappedout.net


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Cremation Revisited
AgePosted: 2012-Apr-12 7:53 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2008-Mar-24 12:14 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Oakland, CA
Thanks, everyone. I already had Chainer and Covenant on the list, but the others were definitely overlooked.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Cremation Revisited
AgePosted: 2012-Apr-12 8:08 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2010-Dec-13 6:01 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Washington D.C.

_________________
My decks on Tappedout.net


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Cremation Revisited
AgePosted: 2012-Apr-12 8:42 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2008-Feb-29 5:57 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Duvall, WA
is missing from the list, he's not fantastic but he is recurrable and unblockable a decent amount of the time...what with Urborg and all


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 139 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 10  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 19 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: