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 Post subject: Help a blue player to play a Mardu deck
AgePosted: 2018-Feb-28 10:48 pm 

Joined: 2017-Oct-19 12:02 am
Age: Drake
Hello, I have this Kaalia of the vast deck https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/kaalia-non-combo/

It is a non-combo deck because my playgroup does not like combos very much so I choose not to run them in this build.

I like to play Kaalia and when I go 1v1 I have good results with my list, but in a 4 man table my results are really bad, not because I loose but because I dont get to do almost nothing relevant

My playgroup has certain 'paranoia' about Kaalia because I have played her agains a few of them in 1v1 environment so they are afraid.

Last time I played I went with 2 decks, this Kaalia and a very bad sharuum deck I build with suboptimal choices and a bad mana base, I loose 2 times with kaalia always being deleted before 6trn and never got to do anything relevant, then With Sharum I won one and got to be the last man standing against the winner of the second in a long fun game, so even when I loose I was able to play my magic.

So I am thinking that maybe I just dont know how to play Kaalia well, my Kaalia is deck has almost all the goodies (good mana base, good creatures, tutors, etc) and I kept being irrelevant in the table, while I spend 5 minutes building my sharum with a suboptimal list and was able to do whatever I wanted in both games.

Thats why I think maybe the problem is that I am lacking the skills to play Kaalia well because I manly play blue/* decks in every other MTG format.

I would apreciate any advice on how to play the Kaalia vs 3 other players

Sorry for my english it is not my natal tongue

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 Post subject: Re: Help a blue player to play a Mardu deck
AgePosted: 2018-Mar-01 4:31 am 
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Joined: 2012-Feb-07 4:15 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
First off, it may very well be a player problem. Your group sees Kaalia, assumes it to be broken/evil, and starts vengefully ganging up on you. Even the best built deck of all time can't handle being the archenemy to 3+ people on a consistent basis. This can be solved through just playing it over and over, maybe showing them what's in the deck so they don't assume it to be MLD or Master of Cruelties or other stupid stuff.

Now, as for actual deckbuilding help...

While I don't play Kaalia, if I did there would be nine cards I'd add in right off the bat without even blinking for a second: Charcoal Diamond, Fire Diamond, Marble Diamond, Rakdos Signet, Orzhov Signet, Boros Signet, Coldsteel Heart, Fellwar Stone, and Talisman of Indulgence. I'd also consider Iron Myr, Gold Myr, Leaden Myr, Star Compass, Sphere of the Suns, and Prismatic Lens. Kaalia has a real problem with color fixing, as she herself has a really color intensive mana cost and a lot of the big creatures she wants to play cost triples of a single color when you end up hardcasting them. These cards also let her come out a turn early assuming a standard land hand, and they just generally help with the high CMC of the deck as a whole.

The next thing you need is card advantage. That is without question the biggest weakness of Kaalia decks: they can easily run out of steam especially after a board wipe. Cards like Night's Whisper or Read the Bones are fantastic, as are Wheel effects and draw engines like Phyrexian Arena. Also combining card advantage with your big guys is a great idea as well. Bloodgift Demon, Dragon Mage, Rune-Scarred Demon, Harvester of Souls, and even Indulgent Tormentor are my personal favorites.

Past that point, the deck is pretty simple to build. Build your standard amount of removal, anti-removal, and big guys, condensing roles whenever you need to. I would also look at ways to get extra use out of her ability, such as extra combat steps or Strionic Resonator.

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 Post subject: Re: Help a blue player to play a Mardu deck
AgePosted: 2018-Mar-01 12:38 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Dec-10 12:16 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
No offense, but after playing against this once; I, too, would hate it out early and often. The decklist looks like a French Banlist 1:1 nightmare, and not any fun to see across the table. I would also guess that the reason you have success in 1:1, but not multi-player, is that the deck features cards that are decent in 1:1, but generally underwhelming in multi-player.

For example: why have Silence in the deck? Silence is okay in 1:1, but the only reason to put it in a multi-player deck is to combo out (which may be your intentions, with Master of Cruelties, Price of Glory, Animate Dead, etc.). It really looks like the only point of the deck is to combo with MoC.

Another example, why run Blood Moon? Kaalia needs too much mana fixing (as DDK mentioned above). It will hurt yourself as much or more than the opponents, and draws too much hate to be worth it in this kind of deck - not too mention Enlightened Tutor (in what should be a creature-focused build) makes it look like this is just part of your combo-out gameplan.

In general, you need some interactive and more flexible options (think more Master Warcraft flexibility, less Trinisphere narrow-hate). If you make the opponent's hate playing against the deck, they will almost always choose to kill you first (threat or not).

As far as "how to play Kaalia?" is concerned, my experience is there are generally two versions.

1) Aggro - Get Kaalia out as fast as possible, combo out with huge beater (MoC, Avacyn, etc.) to lock down or end the game early. Generally not a good plan in multi-player (see this thread where RaiRai tries to convince people how all-powerful Kaalia is, and we all show him why this kind of build just doesn't work in a multi-player environment)

2) Mid-range - Hold Kaalia back, try to be innocuous, and just slowly build value over time. This deck has more chances in multi-player, because you hold her back until there are worse-threats that need answers sooner> stabilize the board position, then build value rather than going all-in on the combo (and losing when it's rebuffed) Because it is more interactive, it stands a better chance of getting less hate (once people realize you are not playing the first version, so it takes a few games).

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Last edited by Treamayne on 2018-Mar-01 1:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Help a blue player to play a Mardu deck
AgePosted: 2018-Mar-01 1:27 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Feb-07 4:15 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Oh crud, I missed the actual decklist. Ignore most of my previous post then.

Yeah, this deck is pretty much as Treamayne said. First of all, any Kaalia deck with Master of Cruelties in it is a combo deck, and Rakdos v1 isn't too far behind in that category. This deck is "not a combo deck" by the letter of the law but certainly not the spirit.

If you're playing in a really competitive metagame where people don't mind MLD or mass discard or whatever, I'd honestly drop Kaalia. She's fine in 1v1 but kinda terrible in multiplayer. Too slow, requires other cards to win the game for her, and most importantly provides zero card advantage or disruption. Jhoira of the Ghitu has a lot of the same problems but is a much more powerful alternative who's also a lot harder to disrupt. And if you're specifically looking for a creature-heavy deck I'd suggest Meren, Animar, or Riku.

If you're not, then first I'd drop all of the mana denial and extreme disruption cards. That would be Iona, Rakdos, Geddon, Cataclysm, Sire of Insanity, Winter Orb, Trinisphere, Silence, Blood Moon, Price of Glory, and Blinding Angel. I'd also keep an eye on Hushwing Gryff, Thalia, Aven Mindcensor, Grand Abolisher, and Defense Grid.

Secondly, I'd drop Chrome Mox, Jeweled Amulet, Lotus Petal, Dark Ritual, Mana Vault, and possibly even Sol Ring. These cards are great in other EDH decks because the general/deck can either win the game extremely quickly or provide some sort of card advantage to replace them. Kaalia does neither and therefore they are just card disadvantage for her.

Speaking of mana, that land base is off. Boseiju and Buried Ruin have zero place in this deck. Boseiju in particular is quite literally a dead card with 85% of the spells in your deck. In general all of the colorless-producing lands except Homeward Path and maybe Tectonic Edge are no-gos. And on that note, 33 lands is a tiny amount. Again, certain other decks can get away with that little because they are saturated with powerful cheap artifact ramp and the general makes up for all of the disadvantages of that strategy. Kaalia simply doesn't work like that.

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 Post subject: Re: Help a blue player to play a Mardu deck
AgePosted: 2018-Mar-01 10:47 pm 

Joined: 2017-Oct-19 12:02 am
Age: Drake
Treamayne wrote:
No offense, but after playing against this once; I, too, would hate it out early and often. The decklist looks like a French Banlist 1:1 nightmare, and not any fun to see across the table. I would also guess that the reason you have success in 1:1, but not multi-player, is that the deck features cards that are decent in 1:1, but generally underwhelming in multi-player.

For example: why have Silence in the deck? Silence is okay in 1:1, but the only reason to put it in a multi-player deck is to combo out (which may be your intentions, with Master of Cruelties, Price of Glory, Animate Dead, etc.). It really looks like the only point of the deck is to combo with MoC.

Another example, why run Blood Moon? Kaalia needs too much mana fixing (as DDK mentioned above). It will hurt yourself as much or more than the opponents, and draws too much hate to be worth it in this kind of deck - not too mention Enlightened Tutor (in what should be a creature-focused build) makes it look like this is just part of your combo-out gameplan.

In general, you need some interactive and more flexible options (think more Master Warcraft flexibility, less Trinisphere narrow-hate). If you make the opponent's hate playing against the deck, they will almost always choose to kill you first (threat or not).

As far as "how to play Kaalia?" is concerned, my experience is there are generally two versions.

1) Aggro - Get Kaalia out as fast as possible, combo out with huge beater (MoC, Avacyn, etc.) to lock down or end the game early. Generally not a good plan in multi-player (see this thread where RaiRai tries to convince people how all-powerful Kaalia is, and we all show him why this kind of build just doesn't work in a multi-player environment)

2) Mid-range - Hold Kaalia back, try to be innocuous, and just slowly build value over time. This deck has more chances in multi-player, because you hold her back until there are worse-threats that need answers sooner> stabilize the board position, then build value rather than going all-in on the combo (and losing when it's rebuffed) Because it is more interactive, it stands a better chance of getting less hate (once people realize you are not playing the first version, so it takes a few games).


Thanks all for the responses.

I play Silence because usually is the only way I get to cast Kaalia safetly and attack at least once, my playgroup saves the removal for her, or for the boots or the threat I am going to drop, so I need a lot of "don't play in my turn" kind of cards such as silence, Price of glory, defense grid, Grand abolisher etc.

I also play those fast mana rocks and ritual because as I said, I need to use Kaalia whenever I can get my opponents unaware and Dark ritual is a good susprise for a T2 kaalia (wich rarely happened to me, but is there)

I have Trinisphere because my playgroup seems Kaalia as a threat but not narset, enlightened masterso it is mainly a hate card against those decks.

The white tutor is for the top, boots, defense grid, trinisphere, price of glory or even a mana rock

The boseiju is because I run very little sorceries but the ones I run I want them to happend, I don't want to get Merciless eviction, Wrath of god or armaggedon countered

I am considering dropping all my 5cmc creatures and adding things like Aurification and cards like those to prevent people from atacking me, maybe going full stax is the way, maybe if I can survive long enought to make my game I can get to do something.

And this is my point, I do not care whatsoever for "who wins" the game, we rarely remember wich player wons a game next week, but I do remember if I got deleted by turn6 or if I got to play something relevant.

Ill rather play a "simple" Kaalia, dropping dragons and angels but it is rarely the case, I tried everything including dropping MoC and Rakdos but because I still get focused I put them back because in a multi I consider those non-combo

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 Post subject: Re: Help a blue player to play a Mardu deck
AgePosted: 2018-Mar-02 2:24 am 
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Joined: 2012-Dec-03 3:16 am
Age: Elder Dragon
alexev wrote:
maybe going full stax is the way, maybe if I can survive long enought to make my game I can get to do something.


I played Kaalia for a number of years, I finally broke her apart because Edgar was printed. He did what she often could not. Kaalia will get hated out. Stax is very much hated out in most every meta. If you want to play games and do relevant things, try Edgar. He only comes down to finish the last 1-2 players typically but he provides much needed dorks throughout the game. It lets me play aggressive and punishes the people that are durdling until they can combo. Very anti-blue, but every once in a while I want to win before turn 45 as well.

I am a big proponent of do what you want, but just remember you can choose your actions, but not the consequences. If you don't want the whole table to focus you, Kaalia and Stax is probably not the best way to go. I recommend maybe keeping this deck for 1v1, and building something else for multiplayer. But do what you want.

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Shabbaman wrote:
The usual answer is "the social contract", but I guess that is not what you are looking for. Try house rules.


With perfect mana, reasonable removal, disruption, and card advantage, we're back to pitchforks and torches. And it's about to get worse for those who do not enjoy the game as Richard Garfield intended, playing as few win conditions as possible and prompting concession after all hopes (and spells) are lost. - Shaheen Soorani


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 Post subject: Re: Help a blue player to play a Mardu deck
AgePosted: 2018-Mar-02 2:35 am 

Joined: 2017-Oct-19 12:02 am
Age: Drake
Inkeyes22 wrote:
alexev wrote:
maybe going full stax is the way, maybe if I can survive long enought to make my game I can get to do something.


I played Kaalia for a number of years, I finally broke her apart because Edgar was printed. He did what she often could not. Kaalia will get hated out. Stax is very much hated out in most every meta. If you want to play games and do relevant things, try Edgar. He only comes down to finish the last 1-2 players typically but he provides much needed dorks throughout the game. It lets me play aggressive and punishes the people that are durdling until they can combo. Very anti-blue, but every once in a while I want to win before turn 45 as well.

I am a big proponent of do what you want, but just remember you can choose your actions, but not the consequences. If you don't want the whole table to focus you, Kaalia and Stax is probably not the best way to go. I recommend maybe keeping this deck for 1v1, and building something else for multiplayer. But do what you want.


I will try full stax and let you know how it went, the thing is, my deck "as is" is the archenemy of the table even when it is the weakest of my playgroup so I ended up being 3vs1.

I hope that if I switch to full stax, the 3vs1 will still exist but at least I will be able to do something

I spent a lot of time and effort (reading in forums, looking in tappedout, ehrec, looking for decktechs and plays in youtube, playtesting myself, getting the cards) not to mention a lot of money to build a deck that I actually like and I want to try to make it viable.

I am also building another EDH that seems fun, maybe that one wont get the aggro of the table (Oloro, Ageless ascetic with ZERO combos)

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 Post subject: Re: Help a blue player to play a Mardu deck
AgePosted: 2018-Mar-02 2:53 am 
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Joined: 2012-Dec-03 3:16 am
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Oloro is another "boogyman". Most play groups will focus him as well. Even if you are zero combos, if you even counterspell one thing people will auto-target you.

Again, do what you want, but be prepared when people don't think Oloro is fun. I mean Ertai, the Corrupted probably will get less hate. Dakkon Blackblade was my go-to for Esper for a long time. It was a "blacksmith" deck full of artifacts. People did not focus me and I was able to do fun things. I did have Mindslaver/Academy Ruins in there, but I only did that once, and it was only me and one other left.

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Shabbaman wrote:
The usual answer is "the social contract", but I guess that is not what you are looking for. Try house rules.


With perfect mana, reasonable removal, disruption, and card advantage, we're back to pitchforks and torches. And it's about to get worse for those who do not enjoy the game as Richard Garfield intended, playing as few win conditions as possible and prompting concession after all hopes (and spells) are lost. - Shaheen Soorani


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 Post subject: Re: Help a blue player to play a Mardu deck
AgePosted: 2018-Mar-02 4:29 am 
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alexev wrote:
I have Trinisphere because my playgroup seems Kaalia as a threat but not narset, enlightened masterso it is mainly a hate card against those decks.
At this point I am genuinely confused. You're playing in a metagame where cards like Trinisphere are viable but Kaalia is hated out harder than Narset? Narset is far more powerful, consistent, antisocial, and uninteractive than Kaalia could ever be. You might want to have a serious talk with the group about threat assessment.

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 Post subject: Re: Help a blue player to play a Mardu deck
AgePosted: 2018-Mar-04 10:33 pm 

Joined: 2017-Oct-19 12:02 am
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Uktabi_Kong wrote:
alexev wrote:
I have Trinisphere because my playgroup seems Kaalia as a threat but not narset, enlightened masterso it is mainly a hate card against those decks.
At this point I am genuinely confused. You're playing in a metagame where cards like Trinisphere are viable but Kaalia is hated out harder than Narset? Narset is far more powerful, consistent, antisocial, and uninteractive than Kaalia could ever be. You might want to have a serious talk with the group about threat assessment.


I had that talk several times, my friends plays Alesha, Jeleeva, Narset, Atraxa, Breya, Shattergang brothers, and a long etcetera.

They say that Kaalia is far more dangerous because they do not know what threat is going to drop and the uncertanty of tif they will be able to handle it or not makes her more scary, even more than narset and her 4 free spells

That is what they say, but the trusth is that we have played 1v1 several times and in those cases the Kaalia winrate was 100%, so they have an unreal perception of her power

Anyway, Played an Oloro last saturday (poorly made with the cards I gan gather) this is the decklist http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/oloro-non-combo-durdle/

It went as expected, I won 1 and loose 3, and except for the one I won the other 3 were 3vs1, but it was good anyway because despite the fact that I loss I was able to make my magic in all the games.

The deck needs a lot of fine tunning to be more consistent in 3vs1 but I think this commander can make it, 2 of the 3 games I lost where because of hexproof commander damage so I think Ill add some solutions like Pravh, spire of order, Righteous aura , te enchant that prevents the damage until your next turn, , Aurification and No mercy.

The last one was against a horde of creatures in both sides of the table, I missed a wrath, so I think Ill need to add a couple more like aetherize and maybe a terminus too.

There are a lot of cards I want to add and I dont know yet wich ones to cut, but so far so good

I think Kaalia will end in a 1v1 deck, wich is so sad

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 Post subject: Re: Help a blue player to play a Mardu deck
AgePosted: 2018-Mar-05 2:09 am 
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Have you considered not playing Kaalia?

I can empathize with players hating on her, since sometimes we have to treat Kaalia like the next time she attacks the absolute biggest worst creature is going to hit the battlefield for free. Since your creature list includes Iona, one of the biggest bogeymen in our entire format, that's not even an exaggeration in your case. This means you are the worst enemy no matter what your board position is. Even when Kaalia isn't out on the battlefield, that's just an opportunity to finish you off quick before she is.

Compensating for that hate with more power and lockdown just further justifies the hate and makes the X on you even bigger.

The corollary of threat assessment is that you need to do it to your own deck too. Design your deck to not immediately ping everyone's threat radars and get yourself destroyed in a united effort. Design your deck to not terrify them. Right now "playing Kaalia" is evidently a great way to make yourself a target, and putting things like Iona in there and the other cards that have been called out just amplifies that. You're shooting yourself in the foot. You're creating a deck that genuinely leaves your opponents no choice but to force you to be unable to meaningfully impact the game.

The best way to deal with crazy high threat levels is just to not create them in the first place. In your case that means not playing Kaalia. If you're not playing Kaalia you don't have to deal with that stuff.

If you want to play Mardu, they have a bunch of other viable commander options: https://edhrec.com/commanders/rwb. Maybe put Kaalia in the 99, at least then she's not a guaranteed appearance and is probably gone once she's removed.

If you want to play nonblue, there's a bajillion options that don't lead to crazy hate levels.

I have a Mathas deck that quietly snowballs until it can destroy someone explosively. It can get as crazy as attacking with a 7/7 flying deathtouch double strike lifelink vigilance, and quadrupled damage, and the capacity to force the opponent to declare 0 blockers. (That's 54 damage and life gained, for those counting along at home.) Part of how it does that is it is never looks like more of a threat than it is, and once it is threatening it can take care of itself and end the game.

Kaalia just looks like an enormous threat the moment you put her on the table before turn 1, and that's a bad position for anyone to be in.

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 Post subject: Re: Help a blue player to play a Mardu deck
AgePosted: 2018-Mar-05 3:09 am 
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Another thing to take into consideration: how many players are in your multiplayer games? Assuming everyone has built their decks at a similar power level and nobody is playing like an idiot or jerk, 1 win in 4 games is to be expected against a multiplayer group of 4.

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 Post subject: Re: Help a blue player to play a Mardu deck
AgePosted: 2018-Mar-05 3:16 am 

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spacemonaut wrote:
Have you considered not playing Kaalia?
.


Actually I do, I am building an Oloro, so, poor Kaalia will be retired from multi and will be played only in 1v1

Uktabi_Kong wrote:
Another thing to take into consideration: how many players are in your multiplayer games? Assuming everyone has built their decks at a similar power level and nobody is playing like an idiot or jerk, 1 win in 4 games is to be expected against a multiplayer group of 4.


Normally we are 4 but the threat assesment is kind of weird, I mean, in some moment one guy was playing Alesha, other guy has 3 dorks (2 3/3) and a 28/28 hydra , tne next guy has 3 big cats one indestructible, then I have a propaganda, eslpesth with 3 soldiers and 60 life and they say "hey oloro is winning" , they focused on me and got me at 35 life and kill my poor Elspeth, so yes I need to be able to handle 3vs1 situations because I want to keep the advantaje I gain during the game

Just to be clear, I enjoyed all the games of this weekend because even while I loss I did everything the deck supouse to do (not like poor Kaalia).

I will improve it because I still think I want to be able to do more (whithout comboing out)

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Oloro, Ageless ascetic The current updated decklist is here
Yennett, Cryptic Sovereign The current updated decklist is here
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 Post subject: Re: Help a blue player to play a Mardu deck
AgePosted: 2018-Mar-05 4:19 am 
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alexev wrote:
spacemonaut wrote:
Have you considered not playing Kaalia?
.


Actually I do, I am building an Oloro, so, poor Kaalia will be retired from multi and will be played only in 1v1


Fair enough and farewell Kaalia. If you've got other nonblue decks you'd like our assistance with we'll be here.

alexev wrote:
Normally we are 4 but the threat assesment is kind of weird, I mean, in some moment one guy was playing Alesha, other guy has 3 dorks (2 3/3) and a 28/28 hydra , tne next guy has 3 big cats one indestructible, then I have a propaganda, eslpesth with 3 soldiers and 60 life and they say "hey oloro is winning" , they focused on me and got me at 35 life and kill my poor Elspeth, so yes I need to be able to handle 3vs1 situations because I want to keep the advantaje I gain during the game


That's something you'll read about in guides about threat assessment: everyone's is a bit different. Some people look at how many cards are in people's hands, some people look at life totals, some look at board state, and so on. Some people pay attention to multiple factors, some fixate on just one. Your friends seem to see high life status as a high priority threat signal — or enough someone got to trick everyone else into targeting you and not them.

Shortly after C14 came out I found out one of my friends had their primary threat variable as "they have their commander out". For nearly the whole game I had nothing to do, no decent cards to play, no real board state, nothing — all I could do was summon my commander and use its card draw ability to hopefully draw something new, and buy time, and every turn that friend threw all their available resources into destroying my commander and board state anew. The other two steamrolled the game unopposed by either of us. It was a pretty miserable game for me, and we had some serious talking after the game about threat assessment and focusing down one player like that. But that's what it was at the time. And it's a spectacular example of how totally and absurdly selective threat assessment can be. (Though to be fair we were fairly new to commander still.)

alexev wrote:
Just to be clear, I enjoyed all the games of this weekend because even while I loss I did everything the deck supouse to do (not like poor Kaalia).

I will improve it because I still think I want to be able to do more (whithout comboing out)


I feel exactly the same way. :) I have a great time when my deck can do its thing whether I win or lose. Oloro is a much better commander for that. Kaalia isn't, since "the deck's thing" is usually something nobody can afford to let happen.

I've had a blast doing The Thing with these commanders: Oloro, Freyalise, Mathas, Atraxa, Saskia. I've also seen some fantastic Do The Thing play from Zurgo (voltron), Tasigur (buddy-up), Ravos/Tymna (cleric tribal can be crazily resilient). There's probably others but these are the ones that come to mind right now.

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 Post subject: Re: Help a blue player to play a Mardu deck
AgePosted: 2018-Mar-05 9:52 am 
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Aw, man. I'm late to the party!

A few thoughts from reading through the thread.

-Kaalia is a "villain" commander. She paints a big targets on the player in the pilot seat. To play Kaalia effectively, you sortof have to behave like a political tyrant at the table... which will probably often result in a coalition against you. It's a wild experience, but super fun, if you can embrace that.

-Definitely wouldn't play Winter Orb in something wanting to go this big. Orb is notorious for being in big gross Stax lists; and often represents the ire of a playgroup after some number of hands. For this particular reason, relative to EDH- I really only like it for decks that are built around artifact mana/creature mana sources, and particularly aggressive builds that use it to slow down especially reactive strategies (see Kresh, Rafiq, Sidri etc.)

-If you're looking to play something not blue, that isn't always the biggest target at the table, I might recommend Marath, Will of the Wild, Ghave, Guru of Spores, Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim or other Generals that have the same sort of value-play principals. If you ever want an alternative that is less table-tilting than Kaalia- I might recommend Mayael the Anima. Green and Red creatures have quite a bit of overlap with Blue effects

-My favorite Mardu general is Alesha, Who Smiles at Death- pretty much hands down. She's much less obvious than Kaalia- but often does similar tricks (and plays better into Aristocrat variants- which are harder to disrupt because they run closer to the ground.) You might still have to get comfortable with bullying the table here- but it doesn't present itself as immediately as the block of text on Kaalia.

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