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Cheating's Beatings
http://mtgcommander.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=18823
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Author:  crimson [ 2018-Apr-15 10:31 am ]
Post subject:  Cheating's Beatings

So I recently noticed a player had a mathematical problem with the number of lands in play, and cards in hand. It was obvious the player had drawn a few extra cards to make up for the heavy landfall he was implementing. Since mentioning it to another player, we've both observed him cheating VERY heavily in at least 3-4 different methods. Even after having some of his attempts called out (not as cheating) or corrected - he continues to do so. Repeatedly, within the same game. It's impossible to police him and play the game.

My play group has for lack of better term - a troll. This guy builds decks that are essentially recursive answers to everything you can do. He plays the game for fun, and to pester/annoy at least one other player at the table. This guy wants to recruit other top level players to build decks to essentially troll the cheater.

I kind of like this idea myself. My problem is I'm a primarily aggro player and don't have a good background on building decks to target a single person. I was wondering if anyone could point me to a 'hate' or a single person prison type deck. I know this is not within the 'spirit' of the format, but this player appears to have cheated his way to answering everyone's decks for months and then grinding out a win.

Author:  Viperion [ 2018-Apr-15 10:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cheating's Beatings

If he's cheating, and you've caught him, and he still does it, kick him out. Screw that noise.

Author:  Uktabi_Kong [ 2018-Apr-15 11:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cheating's Beatings

If the guy is going to cheat multiple times in the same game after getting called out on it, he's not worth the time and effort to mess with.

Don't stoop to his level. Not that I think it even think it puts you in the wrong or anything, but it's just better for you guys to take the high road for your own sake. If you just straight up tell him to gtfo, that's an extra fun game or two that you'd be playing instead of the troll game(s).

Author:  spacemonaut [ 2018-Apr-15 11:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cheating's Beatings

If you try trolling him back you're normalizing his behaviour to him. That won't reach him a lesson other than "other people are willing to do it so it's okay that I do it."

Do him and yourselves a favour and just kick him out to show him it's unacceptable. That will teach him the lesson.

Author:  Treamayne [ 2018-Apr-15 11:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cheating's Beatings

Reminds me of the early days (circa revised) when players (specifically one at my college I can think of) would pull 2-3 cards they were "considering" for Demonic Tutor; pretend to mull them over; then make sure they shuffled to the top of the library (because nobody cut back then, or even cared if you "forgot" to ask).

Viperion wrote:
If he's cheating, and you've caught him, and he still does it, kick him out. Screw that noise.


crimson wrote:
Even after having some of his attempts called out (not as cheating) or corrected



Agreed. Call him out. As cheating (Something along the lines of "Dude, are you really cheating at casual Magic? Seriously?!") It could be compulsive (a form of Kleptomania, IIRC), but if he can't/won't stop, ask him to sit out some rounds or find a new playgroup. Depends on how invested you may be in helping him "recover."

That said, discard and mill decks tend to be very 1 player-at-a-time (and therefore a form of 1 player hate). Things like Bulwark can beef up a Grixis version, Aura Curses can also be very 1 person-centric. Then, of course, there are a whole slew of Karma type color-hate cards that can be used (depending on his colors, and those of the rest of the table)

Author:  crimson [ 2018-Apr-15 12:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cheating's Beatings

spacemonaut wrote:
If you try trolling him back you're normalizing his behaviour to him. That won't reach him a lesson other than "other people are willing to do it so it's okay that I do it."

Do him and yourselves a favour and just kick him out to show him it's unacceptable. That will teach him the lesson.


The goal is to not to cheat back. We have 2-3 high level players in our meta with the card resources to make the game as frustrating as possible to him. It's basically we don't care if you cheat, your life will be very very miserable. The troll guy is already having a lot of fun messing with him, and add another player tearing his game apart...

Author:  spacemonaut [ 2018-Apr-15 7:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cheating's Beatings

crimson wrote:
spacemonaut wrote:
If you try trolling him back you're normalizing his behaviour to him. That won't reach him a lesson other than "other people are willing to do it so it's okay that I do it."

Do him and yourselves a favour and just kick him out to show him it's unacceptable. That will teach him the lesson.


The goal is to not to cheat back. We have 2-3 high level players in our meta with the card resources to make the game as frustrating as possible to him. It's basically we don't care if you cheat, your life will be very very miserable. The troll guy is already having a lot of fun messing with him, and add another player tearing his game apart...

Cheating was 1 of your 2 complaints, the other was targeting people for harassment/annoyance.

The second one you're validating and normalizing by doing exactly that to them, making them feel justified in doing it to others. That makes the problem worse.

Either call them out publicly, talk to them aside privately, and/or kick them out. Needless to say the cheating warrants the same treatment, more likely the last.

Both of your issues are best resolved by not targeting the person and just kicking them out alongside telling them their behaviour was unacceptable.

What you're doing will make the problem worse and the dude's still in your locale victimising other people. I can't make you do anything, but you'll be choosing the option that exacerbates the situation and prolongs everyone's suffering by not kicking them out.

Author:  evil eyeball [ 2018-Jun-11 9:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cheating's Beatings

Not EDH but I came up against and sort of called out a cheater at last pre-release..
The guy had a deck with SEVEN 3 of's
and only wizards.

I mentioned the strength of his deck to the store and they checked his deck.

I went home and coded a simple simulation that opened pre-release packs over and over again trying to get 4x common 3 of sets and 3x uncommon sets since thats what he had...

I left it to run looping and looping (it would only stop once it found a 7 of kit)
I caused an Integer overflow before finding a set which met the requirements.

I should have used a Long to store the number of kits opened.
When it overflowed it had found ONE single Kit with 5 three of's inside it at max

As for building a deck that specifically targets your one cheater... That would require knowledge of what his decks are/do

If he plays lots of landfall as you mention maybe a deck with things that steal lands from people
LIke that druid guy where you tap 7 druids and steal all of someones lands. I don't know I have never targeted one player for mass removal.

Author:  crimson [ 2019-Apr-19 11:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cheating's Beatings

The group I'm part of has mostly fallen apart and that particular player is no longer actively at the shop.

For prereleases - I just kind of assume every sealed event after the midnight release is 'compromised' with cards acquired from previous events. I've noticed some seriously strong decks by Sunday afternoon - mostly from the younger crowd.

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