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 Post subject: Life-Vat
AgePosted: 2019-Aug-01 11:19 am 
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Joined: 2010-Dec-10 12:16 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
I've been toying around with using Lifeline in my Rakdos Demon Tribal build. It seems to go well with Shadowborn Apostle and Blood Speaker; not to mention all of the random "sacrifice a creature" triggers and abilities. I've run a few playtests, and just had a thought (I try to do that every month or so) that seems like it should work, but I thought I might get some feedback.

Would Mimic Vat imprint triggers prevent my opponent's creatures from returning with Lifeline. For example, five opponent creatures die and I say "Yes" to each imprint trigger. Four of them imprint then return to their graveyard; but, at EoT, when Lifeline triggers they should not come back. Correct?

PS: How many Shadowborn Apostles do think a BR demon tribal should want? Keeping in mind that their primary purpose is for random sac triggers - getting six to use their tutor ability is just random gravy that might someday happen.

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Hazezon Tamar - Manland theme
Seshiro the Anointed - Snake Tribal
Jedit Ojanen of Efrava - Cat and Warrior Dual Tribal
Doran, the Seige Tower - Wall Tribal
Progenitus - Hydra themed Proliferate Deck
Karona, the False God - Backstabbing Hug


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 Post subject: Re: Life-Vat
AgePosted: 2019-Aug-01 11:38 am 

Joined: 2019-Aug-01 4:00 am
Age: Wyvern
Treamayne wrote:
I've been toying around with using Lifeline in my Rakdos Demon Tribal build. It seems to go well with Shadowborn Apostle and Blood Speaker; not to mention all of the random "sacrifice a creature" triggers and abilities. I've run a few playtests, and just had a thought (I try to do that every month or so) that seems like it should work, but I thought I might get some feedback.

Would Mimic Vat imprint triggers prevent my opponent's creatures from returning with Lifeline. For example, five opponent creatures die and I say "Yes" to each imprint trigger. Four of them imprint then return to their graveyard; but, at EoT, when Lifeline triggers they should not come back. Correct?

PS: How many Shadowborn Apostles do think a BR demon tribal should want? Keeping in mind that their primary purpose is for random sac triggers - getting six to use their tutor ability is just random gravy that might someday happen.


https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/mag ... vat-solved

This answers your question better than I could, but you are correct. Basically, Lifeline “loses track” of the cards exiled by Mimic Vat so they will not return to the battlefield at the end of the turn, even if they end up going back into the graveyard by the end of the turn.


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 Post subject: Re: Life-Vat
AgePosted: 2019-Aug-01 10:30 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Dec-03 3:16 am
Age: Elder Dragon
If you were using the tutor effect, then I would say you want somewhere between 33-25. I ran 28 or 29 with good effect. If you are just using them as fodder I think I would probably just run other things that have an effect when they die or some kind of etb effect.

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Shabbaman wrote:
The usual answer is "the social contract", but I guess that is not what you are looking for. Try house rules.


With perfect mana, reasonable removal, disruption, and card advantage, we're back to pitchforks and torches. And it's about to get worse for those who do not enjoy the game as Richard Garfield intended, playing as few win conditions as possible and prompting concession after all hopes (and spells) are lost. - Shaheen Soorani


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 Post subject: Re: Life-Vat
AgePosted: 2019-Aug-02 8:19 am 
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Joined: 2010-Dec-10 12:16 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Thanks for the input.

Inkeyes22 wrote:
If you were using the tutor effect, then I would say you want somewhere between 33-25. I ran 28 or 29 with good effect. If you are just using them as fodder I think I would probably just run other things that have an effect when they die or some kind of etb effect.


Well, I'm demon tribal, using the definitions I posted here long ago and updated when I posted them to Nexus recently. Short version, I require my creatures to match the creature type of the general, where I treat creature types like CI - anywhere on the card counts (not just the type line). So, I don't want to just throw in random non-Demons. I would rather avoid going the Devil/Imp route. Sure, there are more than enough Demons to just hit my 30-card mark (including non-creature "demon" cards that don't have the tribal supertype is even easier) but that really sets the creature curve high (I think there are two 3 CMC demons and three 4 CMC demons).

So, lets say I'm shooting for 15-20 actual Demons CMC 3-8. What number of Apostles do you think would reliably net me one or two on the board by the time I am casting the demons?

Edit:

I've decided against mimic vat for this deck. I'm going to see what happens with Blanket of Night, Hecatomb, and Death Pits of Rath. Ping blockers to death before I attack, but not focus on making sure opponent's creatures don't get to return. For problem creatures, I'll have Reito Lantern to put them back to library before they return.

I figure it's at least worth testing, and the Swamp-turned-Tim really goes with Rakdos's cost reduction.

_________________
V/R

HK

Hazezon Tamar - Manland theme
Seshiro the Anointed - Snake Tribal
Jedit Ojanen of Efrava - Cat and Warrior Dual Tribal
Doran, the Seige Tower - Wall Tribal
Progenitus - Hydra themed Proliferate Deck
Karona, the False God - Backstabbing Hug


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