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 Post subject: Tiny Leader
AgePosted: 2014-Nov-11 12:06 pm 

Joined: 2014-Nov-11 6:26 am
Age: Hatchling
Saw this today.

Rules
#1) Your commander and all other cards in your deck may not have a cmc of 4 or higher.
#2) Your starting life total is 25.
#3) Your deck must contain 50 cards (Commander + 49)

http://tinyleaders.blogspot.com/p/ban-list.html


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 Post subject: Re: Tiny Leader
AgePosted: 2014-Nov-24 8:56 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Dec-03 3:16 am
Age: Elder Dragon
So this format got some publicity on Gathering Magic... http://www.gatheringmagic.com/jimibrady-112514-tiny-leaders-put-some-legacy-in-your-commander/.

It looks interesting and like was stated in the article, the barrior to entry is pretty low. How many times have I been waiting on the 4th (or 5th etc.) person to show up, started a game of EDH only to have them show up a few minutes later...

This is something that is worth looking into, as it is designed for 1v1 it is less of the politics/multiplayer fun that EDH has in store... but could be a fun pace.

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 Post subject: Re: Tiny Leader
AgePosted: 2014-Nov-30 1:40 am 
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Joined: 2011-Jun-02 1:03 pm
Age: Wyvern
Location: Portland
I've built a few decks (actually reduced down some EDH decks too) for this format, and I can say it's fun to play and fun to build decks for. I only play EDH, so there are a lot of cards I end up having that are "Good" but not really EDH playable.* Tiny Leaders makes them actually good.

The other thing that I am surprised that I like about it is that, since it's a head to head format, I don't feel the need to make the decks always be fun/social-contract. Or rather that the social contract in 1v1 games is "I know we're both trying to win as quickly as possible," so I don't feel bad playing counterspells, or attacking early, or playing Poison or dedicated hand/library disruption. At the same time you still get to have some "personality" to your deck by having a commander and some deckbuilding restrictions to inspire creativity.

Also: Recurring Nightmare and Tinker aren't banned and Rofellos is only partial-banned, which means that they have value for me again.

I'm looking forward to playing this with my brother, too, since we rarely have a group at holidays.

The only thing I don't like, so far, is that there aren't all that many choices in some color combinations, which means more chance for "Commander-for-colors-only" choices. Hopefully there will be non-Gray-Ogre options for BUG, WUR and WBR soon.

*this doesn't stop me from trying to play them...

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 Post subject: Re: Tiny Leader
AgePosted: 2015-Jan-01 6:27 am 

Joined: 2010-Sep-08 9:21 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Just heard about this. Looks like an amazing format.

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 Post subject: Re: Tiny Leader
AgePosted: 2015-Jan-02 12:46 am 

Joined: 2011-Sep-30 6:08 am
Age: Elder Dragon
This was recently featured on both SCG and CFB, so expect it to pick up at least temporarily.

The odd thing about this format is that now you are playing with fewer than the normal number of cards and you get a Commander on top of that. And you necessarily have a low curve. Even with the highlander restriction, that makes the format extremely low variance and prone to cutthroat games. It seems like a format with an entirely different goal than regular EDH.

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 Post subject: Re: Tiny Leader
AgePosted: 2015-Jan-12 4:02 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Feb-07 3:37 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Danbury, CT
crokaycete wrote:
Even with the highlander restriction, that makes the format extremely low variance and prone to cutthroat games. It seems like a format with an entirely different goal than regular EDH.


Well, it is designed for 1v1 play, so it's definitely a different goal in that regard. So far, I like it quite a bit better than the French 1v1 EDH though. I haven't found a lot in the way of broken combo and/or lockdown decks so far, partly because many of the better combo pieces are either banned or are removed by the 3cmc cap.* The net result seems to be that a lot of games are won "fairly" with a lot of attacking, blocking, 'n creature killin'.

There's a lot of local interest in the format, so our store is running an event for it.

*The one exception might be Esper Doomsday. Animar is spectacular too, but that might be because I'm trying out WB :(

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 Post subject: Re: Tiny Leader
AgePosted: 2015-Jan-13 12:53 am 

Joined: 2013-Aug-20 4:37 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Boston
Why is this called Tiny Leader and not WeeDH?


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 Post subject: Re: Tiny Leader
AgePosted: 2015-Jan-13 1:27 am 

Joined: 2011-Sep-30 6:08 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Kemev wrote:
I haven't found a lot in the way of broken combo and/or lockdown decks
I think there are fewer of them, but combos certainly still exist in the format. You still have Power Artifact + Monoliths. You still have Aggravated Assault + Sword of Feast and Famine. So easy infinite combos are still there.

I think what is keeping those decks from getting too good is that 1v1, a lower life total, and more consistent decks lead to a format where both aggro and control can more coherently attack the format. Combo is super good if everybody is playing midrange (normal EDH) but it's just a normal strategy when people can just attack for lethal on turn 4 or only need to counter a single combo piece.

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 Post subject: Re: Tiny Leader
AgePosted: 2015-Jan-13 9:54 am 
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Joined: 2011-Feb-07 3:37 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Danbury, CT
crokaycete wrote:
Kemev wrote:
I haven't found a lot in the way of broken combo and/or lockdown decks
I think there are fewer of them, but combos certainly still exist in the format. You still have Power Artifact + Monoliths. You still have Aggravated Assault + Sword of Feast and Famine. So easy infinite combos are still there.

I think what is keeping those decks from getting too good is that 1v1, a lower life total, and more consistent decks lead to a format where both aggro and control can more coherently attack the format. Combo is super good if everybody is playing midrange (normal EDH) but it's just a normal strategy when people can just attack for lethal on turn 4 or only need to counter a single combo piece.


I think Elves is probably the best combo-ish deck; I'm sure there are a few UR big mana decks looking to win with big X-spells.

Mystical Tutor for Bonfire of the Damned seems really good.

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 Post subject: Re: Tiny Leader
AgePosted: 2015-Jan-13 10:53 am 

Joined: 2009-Feb-09 4:00 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
There are a bunch of reasonable combo decks.

  • Ambassador Laquatus with the Monolith/Power Artifact combo can be a potent combo-control deck.
  • Kami of the Crescent Moon has been floated as a High Tide - Brain Freeze deck. I don't know if it's better than other storm options, though.
  • Animar is a great combo general on several fronts. You can include a storm kill via BF or Grapeshot or assemble any number of creature combos. He's also in the right colors for a Heartbeat of Spring, Early Harvest, Reiterate, X Spell deck, but I suspect that is pretty Tier Two compared to other options (this deck may also be better as Yasova anyway when she comes out).
  • Any of the Esper generals lend themselves to a Doomsday deck that wins with Laboratory Maniac. If you use Sydri, you can start out as a Stax-ish deck and then side into the Lab Man combo without much loss.
  • Teysa can end up like Ambassador Laquatus in the sense of being a combo-control deck whose general is part of a multi-card finish. However, I think she is less good than AL simply because AL is blue.
  • Ezuri is the go-to Elfball general, but your draw options are scarce so you're more likely to play out as an aggro deck than something like a Legacy combo deck.

My general impressions of this format are that it's a lot like the bastard child of Legacy and Commander, getting its good looks from Commander and its smarts and charming personality from Legacy. If you want to build to succeed in any moderately competitive environment it's probably best to take the same sort of deckbuilding approach to this format as you would to Legacy, rather than regular Commander. That is, you should prioritize individually strong inclusions over things that are cute and avoid Magical Christmasland scenarios at all costs when evaluating cards and card interactions.

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 Post subject: Re: Tiny Leader
AgePosted: 2015-Jan-14 6:51 pm 

Joined: 2009-Oct-08 1:00 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Aggro_zombies wrote:
There are a bunch of reasonable combo decks.

<cool list>

Awesome.

I've been thinking about putting together some decks in this format -- they're easy to carry around and they'd be a great addition to full-day Commander get-togethers (both to fill time while we're waiting for people to arrive and to keep people occupied until the next big game after they get knocked out.) I'm curious what else people here have built.


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 Post subject: Re: Tiny Leader
AgePosted: 2015-Jan-15 10:01 am 

Joined: 2009-Feb-09 4:00 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
My Jeskai list is posted in the decklists section. It's still a work in progress but is getting to a good spot.

I've seen, or played against, the following:

- Animar Heartbeat combo (not optimized by any means, but interesting)
- Sydri artifacts (heavy equipment focus, needs tweaking)
- Rhys the Redeemed tokens (does what it says on the tin)
- Teysa, Orzhov Scion midrange (not quite sure what this was supposed to be, maybe tokens? I #rekt it with Shu Yun)
- Marath tribal Slivers (Marath is a beating of a general)

I'm currently working on a list for Alesha, Who Smiles at Death, Grenzo, Dungeon Warden, and Sydri, Galvanic Genius. I have a provisional list for Ezuri up here, and initial goldfishes have been very promising; I'll test it out next week. There's been some good discussion in the Commander subforum of mtgthesource.com about Tiny Leader, with an interesting Kira Merfolk list posted here. And, or course, there's www.reddit.com/r/tinyleaders.

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kaldare wrote:
Printing generically and boringly powerful cards obviously intended for commander does the format zero favors.

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 Post subject: Re: Tiny Leader
AgePosted: 2015-Jan-15 5:25 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Feb-07 3:37 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Danbury, CT
Have you seen a solid list for Mono-U artifact combo-ness?

My first few efforts with V-Clique got horribly squashed by Jenara (it could be face beaters with counterspell back-up is just good in this format, but I think my deck was bad).

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 Post subject: Re: Tiny Leader
AgePosted: 2015-Jan-15 6:27 pm 

Joined: 2009-Feb-09 4:00 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
There's this, which looks like a solid combo-control deck.

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kaldare wrote:
Printing generically and boringly powerful cards obviously intended for commander does the format zero favors.

Sidisi - Nin


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 Post subject: Re: Tiny Leader
AgePosted: 2015-Jan-19 5:54 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Dec-03 3:16 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Kemev wrote:
Well, it is designed for 1v1 play, so it's definitely a different goal in that regard. So far, I like it quite a bit better than the French 1v1 EDH though.


After a few games, it really is nothing like EDH, I as well do not care for French 1v1, but this is better as the games are not as long and you don't come expecting to have the same Crazy EDH experience and get disappointed because you can't cast your dragons before you get blown out. I forget where, but someone else was talking about the very restrictive ban list (42 when everything that costs more than 3cmc is banned by default.)

I think I have expressed my opinion on a number of posts (not a fan even if I understand why it was banned.) This makes me less interested in a format. But it is a nice alternate to keeping a t2 deck to play when we are waiting on someone to show up.

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Shabbaman wrote:
The usual answer is "the social contract", but I guess that is not what you are looking for. Try house rules.


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