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MTG Commander/Elder Dragon Highlander • View topic - Oathbreaker (60-card, planeswalkers for commanders)

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 Post subject: Oathbreaker (60-card, planeswalkers for commanders)
AgePosted: 2019-Apr-05 12:18 pm 

Joined: 2011-Jan-03 4:23 pm
Age: Drake
https://weirdcards.org/oathbreaker

Although Brawl doesn't seem to have had much of an impact with the wider playerbase, I wonder if this might still have a place, what with how WotC pushes planeswalkers as their signature.

A couple of notes:

1. Weird Cards settled on 60 cards/20 life as making the most strategies viable (e.g. burn struggling in Commander). I'll admit I'm curious as to whether they tested 80 cards/30 life. Either way, it also has the effect, according to at least one video, of precluding 3-6 hour games (his words, not mine). Of course, a smaller library means less variation in successive games...

2. It's important to realize that you have two command zone cards--your planeswalker leader (they can't all be breaking an oath. See, for example, Ob Nixilis.), and a signature spell (sorcery or instant) that can only be used when the leader is out, and is also subject to tax.


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 Post subject: Re: Oathbreaker (60-card, planeswalkers for commanders)
AgePosted: 2019-Apr-08 6:25 am 

Joined: 2014-Sep-13 7:28 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Why can't it just be called a commander and not be confusing and then imposing on yourself a rule that "Cards which refer to your commander refer to your Oathbreaker"?

Saheeli is banned? Just for the +1 that reduces the cost of the signature spell?

Upheaval and Tooth and Nail are banned but not Yawg Will and Demonic Tutor??

Emrakul banned??? Ad Nauseam? Banned why?

It's like it lazily copy-pasted Commander banlist and then a handful of cards they were tired of losing to? How and why are you are casting Expropriate and Primal Surge in a 'fast' format with 20 life?

Seems really cool but also really try-hard. I usually hate when people say that but i'm at a loss for a better description of how i feel.

Teferi Time Raveler + Force of Will seems pretty cool.

+ Dark Ritual not so much.


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 Post subject: Re: Oathbreaker (60-card, planeswalkers for commanders)
AgePosted: 2019-May-07 3:23 pm 

Joined: 2017-Jul-06 3:44 pm
Age: Drake
As it was already mentioned in the latest episode of Command Zone on YouTube, + is more than likely going to be tier 0 in Oathbreaker with + shutting down combo decks indefinitely while denying your opponents resources by exiling cards from their library. + almost screams with all over again though. If only + was officially viable since we don't officially have a 5 Color Planeswalker yet.

I think my biggest concern with Oathbreaker as a format will be it's potential impact on the Secondary Market especially If spikes in price due to without a reprint in Modern Horizons. Time will tell If people start taking this format as seriously as EDH / Commander where card singles are already having a financial impact on other formats with Standard, Modern, and Legacy. That and I partially blame Star City Games and Channel Fireball for artificially inflating the price of competitive Modern staples when there's absolutely no reason to.

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"Stax is the hero we need but don't deserve. Too many people just play dumb stuff and often games devolve into "who does their dumb stuff first". People essentially just goldfishing. Great social format you got here Sheldon." - illakunsaa


Last edited by Card Slinger J on 2019-May-07 5:14 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Oathbreaker (60-card, planeswalkers for commanders)
AgePosted: 2019-May-07 3:40 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Feb-07 4:15 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
The fact that the banned list is just a copy-paste of the commander list is even more bizarre the more I think about it. is garbage in this format, Servantstone seems even worse in a format where everyone has immediate access to a removal spell, and pretty much all of the big mana spells are way too slow for a 60-card 20-life format. And of all cards that have been banned previously, one would think Protean Hulk would be too strong in a format where your commander can be .


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 Post subject: Re: Oathbreaker (60-card, planeswalkers for commanders)
AgePosted: 2019-May-07 4:09 pm 

Joined: 2017-Jul-06 3:44 pm
Age: Drake
Oathbreaker feels like a missed opportunity to go after certain Planeswalker ability synergies that make for non-interactive board states in which the R&D team took for granted. + is a prime example of that since she can set opponents back several turns from being able to keep up with you. Don't get me started with + not to mention being an auto win with his 0 emblem. Why not tutor twice with 's -2 and to combo out?

+ seems like it could be really good for group hug shenanigans in Oathbreaker. Get everyone to draw cards while also being able to cheat their other permanents onto the battlefield. Even could add in on the fun as well. Maybe + could be useful for giving one of your opponents' creatures reach and vigilance while also getting more of their permanents onto the battlefield with .

_________________
"Stax is the hero we need but don't deserve. Too many people just play dumb stuff and often games devolve into "who does their dumb stuff first". People essentially just goldfishing. Great social format you got here Sheldon." - illakunsaa


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 Post subject: Re: Oathbreaker (60-card, planeswalkers for commanders)
AgePosted: 2019-May-08 4:11 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Feb-07 3:37 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Danbury, CT
So the deal is you can play a 58 card deck with the most broken spells ever as your general? ...pretty much any degenerate idiocy is possible (and on a budget, no less). Besides the aforementioned Narset, Parter of Wills + Windfall, Yawgmoth's Will, and Flash you got:

+
pretty much anyone +
...if for some reason Frantic Search doesn't float your boat, any Reset or Vitalize effect is fine
+
+

This seems like it goes the way of Tiny Leaders pretty quickly.

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 Post subject: Re: Oathbreaker (60-card, planeswalkers for commanders)
AgePosted: 2019-May-13 12:45 pm 

Joined: 2017-Jul-06 3:44 pm
Age: Drake
Based on what I've been hearing, this new format isn't as broken as it seems. Sure, you can combo out of your Command Zone or run as your Signature Spell, though everyone seems to be missing the fact that you have 20 life in a 4 player game. People don't like losing to combo and If that's your game plan then it's telegraphed from the time you sit down and start shuffling. Well built Oathbreaker decks are much more low to the ground than EDH decks and If you start the game in an Archenemy position, chances are you're dead by turn 5 to combat damage.

Is Oathbreaker broken as a format? Sure. So is EDH / Commander yet it is either the most popular or second most popular way to play Magic period. The vast majority of playgroups don't play cEDH (Competitive EDH / Commander) because they don't find it fun, and the same will likely be true for Oathbreaker as well. Games are shorter because decks are more consistent. That's a good thing for many playgroups. An average game of Oathbreaker is normally 30-50 minutes and is usually pretty swingy and fun. It feels more like Multiplayer Modern than EDH / Commander.

It's one thing to be skeptical of the format but to call the format solved or broken without having played a game is flat out wrong. Oathbreaker is different from EDH / Commander in a big way actually, however better is entirely subjective. Games are much faster and Aggro/Burn is a force to be reckoned with. With the combination of a Planeswalker and a Signature Spell (Instant or Sorcery) in the Command Zone you can also build around very focused game plans and build super consistent decks, much more so than in EDH / Commander.

It's a 6-8 turn format vs. an 8-12 turn format like EDH / Commander. It's a nice alternative way to play Multiplayer when you don't have time to sit down for a 90+ minute EDH / Commander game. I've already talked to my local EDH playgroup about Oathbreaker where a couple seem to have an interest in trying it out while one is still unsure about it. As for me I haven't officially decided on a Planeswalker and Signature Spell yet though I'd love to see Wizards of the Coast design a Planeswalker to add more of a group hug aspect to the format If it actually takes off.

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"Stax is the hero we need but don't deserve. Too many people just play dumb stuff and often games devolve into "who does their dumb stuff first". People essentially just goldfishing. Great social format you got here Sheldon." - illakunsaa


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 Post subject: Re: Oathbreaker (60-card, planeswalkers for commanders)
AgePosted: 2019-May-19 8:41 am 
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Joined: 2011-Feb-07 3:37 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Danbury, CT
I'm starting to come around on this... I think the banned list needs quite a bit of work though. is a menace to society, and I think some of the titans could be unbanned. The signature spells also seem really tough to balance, but maybe that's where you throw in the towel and say "broken format, go nuts"

I'm not convinced this is a turn 5 format.

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 Post subject: Re: Oathbreaker (60-card, planeswalkers for commanders)
AgePosted: 2019-May-19 2:23 pm 

Joined: 2017-Jul-06 3:44 pm
Age: Drake
Anytime I try to brew a new deck for Oathbreaker it always feels as though there aren't enough Planeswalkers with loyalty abilities that synergize well with other Instants and/or Sorceries as the Signature Spell where I often feel like I'm stuck having to go with a tribal theme around a specific creature type and play Aggro. If my Oathbreaker is I run Beasts, Sarkhan I run Dragons, Elspeth with Soldiers, and the list goes on. does have synergy with as his Signature Spell, as does with as his Signature Spell. So maybe I'm not looking hard enough while browsing through other Planeswalkers and Instants / Sorceries to try to center a strategy toward.

Planeswalkers seem to have the least amount of power creep compared to Legendary Creatures which could explain my dilemma when brewing for Oathbreaker. Superfriends only appears to be more broken in EDH / Commander due to having 40 extra cards / 20 extra life where as the 60 card deck limit in Oathbreaker seems to hinder it's consistency from focusing less on the Oathbreaker itself. In other words, you can easily get away with not having to cast your Commander in a regular EDH / Commander game compared to being required to cast your Oathbreaker due to the significance of the Signature Spell you're running. Can a Oathbreaker deck function without having to rely on either the Oathbreaker and / or Signature Spell?

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"Stax is the hero we need but don't deserve. Too many people just play dumb stuff and often games devolve into "who does their dumb stuff first". People essentially just goldfishing. Great social format you got here Sheldon." - illakunsaa


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 Post subject: Re: Oathbreaker (60-card, planeswalkers for commanders)
AgePosted: 2019-May-20 12:48 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Feb-07 3:37 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Danbury, CT

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 Post subject: Re: Oathbreaker (60-card, planeswalkers for commanders)
AgePosted: 2019-May-21 3:58 pm 

Joined: 2017-Jul-06 3:44 pm
Age: Drake
I did recently come up with this list a few days ago, I call it "Tamiyo Explores ASMR":

Oathbreaker / Signature Spell - (2)
1
1

Creatures - (10)
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1

Instants - (8)
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1

Sorceries - (4)
1
1
1
1

Artifacts - (10)
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1

Enchantments - (4)
1
1
1
1

Lands - (22)
13 Island
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1

Deck's pretty much based around 's -2 loyalty ability to draw off of each tapped creature my opponents control while ensures that they don't untap during their controllers' next untap step. I also run a lot of proliferate to help keep loyalty counters on for spamming her -2 loyalty ability while and is to help against decks that lack enough creatures to cast my Signature Spell.

I figured since I'm going to be drawing tons of cards off of , , and why not run , , , and ? I'd like to try to run more "Enters the Battlefield Tapped" abilities for my opponents permanents similar to and . I might look into stuff from Modern Horizons to help improve this deck a bit more If I get around to actually building it.

_________________
"Stax is the hero we need but don't deserve. Too many people just play dumb stuff and often games devolve into "who does their dumb stuff first". People essentially just goldfishing. Great social format you got here Sheldon." - illakunsaa


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 Post subject: Re: Oathbreaker (60-card, planeswalkers for commanders)
AgePosted: 2019-May-26 4:32 am 
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Joined: 2008-Mar-24 12:14 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Oakland, CA


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 Post subject: Re: Oathbreaker (60-card, planeswalkers for commanders)
AgePosted: 2019-May-30 2:31 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Feb-07 3:37 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Danbury, CT

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 Post subject: Re: Oathbreaker (60-card, planeswalkers for commanders)
AgePosted: 2019-May-31 10:15 am 
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Joined: 2008-Mar-24 12:14 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Oakland, CA
Ajani Hatecats - W hatebears with /. Getting to his ult is nice, but the deck also makes good use of his -2, making a very good backup.

Ajani Untouchable - GW Spiritcraft / Arcane tribal with /. Very good anti-discard deck, if you expect to run into a lot of / effects.

Arlinn Wolfchantress - RG Enchantress and Wolves with /. and pull double duty.

Ashiok Mill - UB Mill with /. There are many other lists better than mine, this was just an early idea I had before seeing Ashiok is one of the top 5 most popular Oathbreakers in the format. After playing almost exclusively EDH for 10+ years, I just really wanted a deck wherein was a good card.

Dack B-Sides - UR color shenanigans & non-staples with /. While not completely staple-free, I tried to include as many "wait, what's that do?" cards as I could and still keep it functional. Many of the cards (including the signature spell) get WAY better if I miraculously find myself with a Dack emblem, but each card is intended to have at least some value without Dack.

Kiora B-Sides - GU color shenanigans & non-staples with /. More overlap with the Dack idea than I would like, and less synergy with my Oathbreaker than Dack's deck. Kiora is a lot better at protecting herself, though, and + / is quite satisfying. as a signature spell is a really good rattlesnake.

Daretti Corpse Dancer - RB reanimator and combo with /. This deck began as an attempt to set up a combo of and with a high-but-not-infinite gravestorm, but I found that so much harder to put together than a simple infinite gravestorm. My Oathbreaker and signature spell are only moderately useful for my deck, not a necessary to cast more than once per game.

Huatli Butts - GW Big Butts with /. This is the Oathbreaker version of Doran / Arcades the Strategist. / / / would all be good alternatives for signature spell; I just went with the generic best way to protect Huatli.

Kaya Astral - WB Astral Slide / Astral Drift with /. There's also a Constellation subtheme that allows / to interact nicely with the deck. Also, you'll notice in a LOT of Oathbreaker lists, it is included in this one but only because of the interaction with / .

Koth Zada & Friends - R Spellslinger Aggro with /. Very casual, with a handful of Allies and Changelings.

Jace Lab Maniac - U Self Mill with /. Can self mill with either (signature spell tutoring for ) or . Non-interactive wins are not really my thing, but I saw someone else playing a version of this deck and I just felt compelled to make a more resilient version.

Windgrace Offerings - BRG Lands and Gifting Life with /.

Saheeli Super Prowess - UR Control with /. No real 'finisher' for this Control deck, other than a gradually building swarm of 1/1s and some signature spell 5 damage to the face.

Sarkhan Converge - GUR Control with /. Contains , which is probably pretty rare for this format.

Sorin Vamps - WB Aggro with /. Not really dedicated Vampire Tribal, just reanimator with a little Vampire support. WARNING - contains , which can be a big griefer card. Make sure your playgroup is OK with it before you play it.

Tamiyo Morph - GWU Morphs with /. Piloting an Oathbreaker/Signature Spell this scary on top of a deck this weak is often political suicide, but I've managed to win once with it. Probably would have better chances with a weaker spell like or , but I worry Tamiyo herself might be the problem and I don't want to play Estrid in a deck with almost no enchantments.

Tezzeret Haterocks - U Soft Stax with /. This deck I made just because I thought "Wouldn't it be funny if Tezz used his -2 to find , and his +1 then became vigilance for ?" Not strong enough to be competitive, but a this could be a little too griefer for casual, depending on your group.


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