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MTG Commander/Elder Dragon Highlander • View topic - Hello; My name is Bringer of the _______ Dawn. Why you Hate?

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 Post subject: Hello; My name is Bringer of the _______ Dawn. Why you Hate?
AgePosted: 2012-Mar-01 9:38 am 

Joined: 2011-Jun-22 8:08 am
Age: Drake
Hey Community.

Our local playgroup has run into the question of "Should the Bringer only be allowed in 5 color decks?" The Reasoning:

Each bringer has a "color" determined affect so to speak, The blue one gives card draw, the white one recurrs artifacts, the black one tutors, the red one borrows creatures and gives them haste, and the green one makes tokens.

So if each of the bringers seems to lend itself purely to one of the five colors, why can't they be used in decks running their primary color?.







The reason why these poor little runts can't current be used in Mono-2-3-4 color decks, it because they have an "ALTERNATE CASTING COST" ability. This ability doesn't apply to anything they are capable of once they are in play...and has no effect on the game other than if you are playing a 5 color deck you can get a bringer on turn 5 instead of Turn 9 like other decks :P

What do you guys think? My local playgroup is kinda wanting to house rule these guys so they are allowed.


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 Post subject: Re: Hello; My name is Bringer of the _______ Dawn. Why you Hate?
AgePosted: 2012-Mar-01 9:44 am 

Joined: 2010-Sep-28 8:44 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Hamilton, ON
So do it.

Discussing it here is pointless because the color identity rules are one of the defining features of the format and isn't going to change, nor is the RC going to add "special case" rules for a small group of cards. If your playgroup wants to do it, do it.

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 Post subject: Re: Hello; My name is Bringer of the _______ Dawn. Why you Hate?
AgePosted: 2012-Mar-01 9:49 am 

Joined: 2011-Jun-22 8:08 am
Age: Drake
I don't think discussing it with the community is a terrible thing regardless of your point that it is unlikely to cause a change in the current rules. I think that it could promote a valuable discussion that might give me some good insight, that I can share with the local playgroup.

Who knows, maybe cards like the Bringer's weren't thought of when the rules were made, and like any format has a banned list, they sometimes also have other "Special rules/allowances"

I am not expecting anything from this thread but to recieve the input of other players from accross the community. Maybe another playgroup also dealt with this issue recently and can offer a suggestion *shrugs*

No Harm in talking about it, so it isn't pointless to me. Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Hello; My name is Bringer of the _______ Dawn. Why you Hate?
AgePosted: 2012-Mar-01 10:06 am 
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Joined: 2007-Jan-05 12:58 am
Age: Elder Dragon
This is one of the most common house rules, because you're totally right. In fact, long ago there actually was a special rule allowing you to ignore their alternate cost while deck building. Back then there was a bunch of format specific errata ( was unbanned and couldn't hit generals, a couple of the life-total matters cards had their numbers changed), but then we decided that was dumb, inevitably led to inconsistencies in the rules, and the format was simply cleaner and easier to understand without them.

Long story short, go ahead and play the Bringers. They're cool, powerful and clearly have a monocolour identity from a concept perspective. The official rules won't change, though, because having separate rules for individual cards isn't worth it in the big picture.


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 Post subject: Re: Hello; My name is Bringer of the _______ Dawn. Why you Hate?
AgePosted: 2012-Mar-01 10:19 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Hello; My name is Bringer of the _______ Dawn. Why you Hate?
AgePosted: 2012-Mar-01 10:36 am 

Joined: 2011-Jun-22 8:08 am
Age: Drake
No 5 that is a different type of thing all together.

Hybrid cards have a casting cost [color] in the top right. That card should only be played in decks that have a commander with Red in their color identity.

The Bringers aren't hybrid cards because if they were then their casting cost would look like

(4)(1)(1)(1)W W
/ / / / /
R U B G W

The alternate casting cost of the Bringers isn't making them a hybrid card and you know that :P It's an optional part of their ability that makes it easier for a five color deck to play them. I read your ideas in your post about allowing off color cards in decks, but I think the Bringers are a different issue entirely.


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 Post subject: Re: Hello; My name is Bringer of the _______ Dawn. Why you Hate?
AgePosted: 2012-Mar-01 10:39 am 

Joined: 2010-Sep-11 12:19 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
I just want to chime in for this thread,

other then extreme basket cases - this entire thread is all about allowing the inclusion of the non-red Bringers.


Just sayin'.


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 Post subject: Re: Hello; My name is Bringer of the _______ Dawn. Why you Hate?
AgePosted: 2012-Mar-01 10:41 am 
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Joined: 2011-Jun-29 9:22 am
Age: Drake
Location: New Hampshire
Then you're going to have to better define what you mean. Currently this is the rule preventing Bringers in non-5C decks:

903.4. The Commander variant uses color identity to determine what cards can be in a deck with a certain commander. The color identity of a card is the color or colors of any mana symbols in that card's mana cost or rules text, plus any colors defined by its characteristic-defining abilities (see rule 604.3) or color indicator (see rule 204).

Would you change it to:
Proposed rule 903.4. The Commander variant uses color identity to determine what cards can be in a deck with a certain commander. The color identity of a card is the color or colors of any mana symbols in that card's mana cost or rules text (Except if the card has 'Bringer' in the name, because they're -like- totally cool), plus any colors defined by its characteristic-defining abilities (see rule 604.3) or color indicator (see rule 204).

:?:

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 Post subject: Re: Hello; My name is Bringer of the _______ Dawn. Why you Hate?
AgePosted: 2012-Mar-01 10:46 am 
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Joined: 2011-Mar-15 12:45 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Would it be that hard to have a rule that said "alternate casting costs are not considered when determining the color identity of the card"?

I mean, it's LESS simple than the current rules, but it's not that complex either.

(Personally, I'd like to exclude kicker costs, too. I mean, if you really WANT to play in mono-black, I say more power to you.)


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 Post subject: Re: Hello; My name is Bringer of the _______ Dawn. Why you Hate?
AgePosted: 2012-Mar-01 10:50 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Hello; My name is Bringer of the _______ Dawn. Why you Hate?
AgePosted: 2012-Mar-01 10:54 am 

Joined: 2011-Jun-22 8:08 am
Age: Drake
Well I am just going to sift through the pile of smart ass and do my best to answer the point you chose to make through use of clever although ultimately rude means.

------------

Proposed Rule 903.4 The Commander uses color identity to determine what cards can be in a deck with a certain commander. The color identity of a card is determined by any mana symbols that appear in that card's mana cost and rules text, if and when that mana symbol is used in the activation/trigger of a specific characteristic-defined ability (see Rule 604.3).

This would allwo for cards like the Bringer. But not allow for Hybrids, or Cards with off color kickers/activated/triggered abilities.

Though, I am not a ruleslawyer so I may have mucked up *shrugs* Did my best.


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 Post subject: Re: Hello; My name is Bringer of the _______ Dawn. Why you Hate?
AgePosted: 2012-Mar-01 10:58 am 
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Last edited by 5ColorControl on 2012-Mar-01 11:31 am, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Hello; My name is Bringer of the _______ Dawn. Why you Hate?
AgePosted: 2012-Mar-01 11:05 am 
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Age: Elder Dragon
So, that rule about reminder text isn't so much an actual rule as it is a REMINDER of the actual rules about reminder text? :P


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 Post subject: Re: Hello; My name is Bringer of the _______ Dawn. Why you Hate?
AgePosted: 2012-Mar-01 11:12 am 

Joined: 2011-Jun-22 8:08 am
Age: Drake


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 Post subject: Re: Hello; My name is Bringer of the _______ Dawn. Why you Hate?
AgePosted: 2012-Mar-01 11:25 am 
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