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 Post subject: Re: Rules Discussion forum rules
AgePosted: 2013-Apr-25 10:18 am 

Joined: 2012-Mar-31 11:52 am
Age: Elder Dragon
trevor wrote:
Kemev's right. "Run more answers," belongs in the strategy or deck building thread. Yet it always seems to pop up in the rules discussion thread the most. People say it with no context to the level of answers a person is running under the assumption that, since they've had no problem answering the card, it simply MUST be a lack of answers in your deck that's not allowing you to do the same.

What that simplistic idea ignores is that there's often a lot more to what causes a card to not be a problem than just answers for it. For example, you can play Avacyn or Darksteel Forge all you want but if I'm going to untap and Fireball you dead, I don't really give a crap. Metagame speed, or lack there of, is often enough to make certain difficult strategies seem better or worse than they actually are.

I agree that GENERALLY, "run more answers" belongs in Strategy threads, but the simple fact is that more often than not, it is here in the Rules thread where people complain about Card X. Sometimes, (as with the case of Coalition Victory) "run answers" is weak when your answer is limited to one color, or a narrow range of decks that run that particular type of threat. Other complaints, such as Consecrated Sphinx, not only have playable answers in virtually every color including colorless, but are of a type that you should be packing answers for regardless. So, while I'm not speaking on behalf of CS right now, I'm saying that if you have a problem with CS over the course of many turns game after game, "playing more answers" just might be your problem, not CS.


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 Post subject: Re: Rules Discussion forum rules
AgePosted: 2013-Apr-26 2:54 am 
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Joined: 2008-Aug-15 9:31 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
I suppose that's true. All to often though in the case of creatures, the best answers are simply stealing it or cloning it. Yes, you could just Wrath or StP the guy... or you could go for the win because someone else presented you the opportunity to do so.

I mean, it's not like Clones and theft effects are bad cards on your own. You're not venturing out of the "build casually" philosophy by running them. I play them in my blue deck and adamantly refuse to play against CS. But be damn sure that, if a CS did somehow show up, I'd steal him in a second. Because once the game starts, people should play to win.


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 Post subject: Re: Rules Discussion forum rules
AgePosted: 2013-Apr-26 2:59 am 

Joined: 2008-Jun-20 7:38 am
Age: Elder Dragon
trevor wrote:
I suppose that's true. All to often though in the case of creatures, the best answers are simply stealing it or cloning it. Yes, you could just Wrath or StP the guy... or you could go for the win because someone else presented you the opportunity to do so.

I mean, it's not like Clones and theft effects are bad cards on your own. You're not venturing out of the "build casually" philosophy by running them. I play them in my blue deck and adamantly refuse to play against CS. But be damn sure that, if a CS did somehow show up, I'd steal him in a second. Because once the game starts, people should play to win.


Stealing it is potentially okay, but cloning threats rather than eliminating them is exactly what I was talking about when I said people are filling their decks with bombs rather than answers. Clones do not solve problems, they just make it more likely to get the board to an untenable state.

If I play a threat, and you play a threat, it's no different than me playing a threat and you cloning it. You didn't answer my threat, you just added one of your own, and to top it off it's only better than mine if you're already ahead or you're in a noticeably better position to abuse said copy of my threat.

Clone effects are not bad, but they are not answers to anything beyond legendary creatures.

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 Post subject: Re: Rules Discussion forum rules
AgePosted: 2013-Apr-26 6:52 am 
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Joined: 2008-Aug-15 9:31 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Also technically true. I still run Clones in the percentage of my deck devoted to answers to creatures because most of the time it seems to be enough to turn the tables on your opponent's board position. I sure felt like I had answered my buddy's Grave Titan when I Cloned it the other day. It sure wasn't coming at me anymore. You could probably say the same thing about the 5 pre-con Vows or cards like Armadillo Cloak on an opponent's creature.


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 Post subject: Re: Rules Discussion forum rules
AgePosted: 2015-Mar-26 7:00 am 

Joined: 2015-Mar-23 1:51 pm
Age: Wyvern
If you haven't read these guy's response, I highly recommend it.
https://www.change.org/p/wizards-of-the-coast-edh-rules-committee-magic-players-reverse-the-recent-commander-ruling-regarding-tucking

Card Manipulation is important. But lets talk about Zones
Library, Hand, Battlefield, Graveyard, Stack, Exile, Command and Ante but Ante does not matter.

Why is Library so sacred? Exile works like the Graveyard but much much harder to access, and manipulate. Its actually like a second Graveyard.

Shouldn't Commanders going into, on top of, and on the bottom of matter more?


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 Post subject: Re: Rules Discussion forum rules
AgePosted: 2015-Mar-26 8:20 am 
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Joined: 2012-Feb-07 4:15 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Netsphere wrote:
If you haven't read these guy's response, I highly recommend it.
https://www.change.org/p/wizards-of-the-coast-edh-rules-committee-magic-players-reverse-the-recent-commander-ruling-regarding-tucking

Card Manipulation is important. But lets talk about Zones
Library, Hand, Battlefield, Graveyard, Stack, Exile, Command and Ante but Ante does not matter.

Why is Library so sacred? Exile works like the Graveyard but much much harder to access, and manipulate. Its actually like a second Graveyard.

Shouldn't Commanders going into, on top of, and on the bottom of matter more?

The library isn't sacred. The new rule takes commanders out of the hand (if desired) as well.

In fact, the fact that the library and hand were and exception to the replacement rule made it more "sacred".

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 Post subject: Re: Rules Discussion forum rules
AgePosted: 2015-Mar-26 8:25 am 

Joined: 2010-Sep-11 12:19 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
I can't believe I pressed the "report" button twice in the last twenty-four some hours.


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 Post subject: Re: Rules Discussion forum rules
AgePosted: 2015-Mar-26 8:35 am 
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Joined: 2014-Sep-30 6:38 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Netsphere wrote:
If you haven't read these guy's response, I highly recommend it.
https://www.change.org/p/wizards-of-the-coast-edh-rules-committee-magic-players-reverse-the-recent-commander-ruling-regarding-tucking

Card Manipulation is important. But lets talk about Zones
Library, Hand, Battlefield, Graveyard, Stack, Exile, Command and Ante but Ante does not matter.

Why is Library so sacred? Exile works like the Graveyard but much much harder to access, and manipulate. Its actually like a second Graveyard.

Shouldn't Commanders going into, on top of, and on the bottom of matter more?


Why has this been posted here? This thread is not for debating the rules, it is for debating the rules for debating the rules. Which is pretty ironic. But seriously, there are about 7 relevant threads for this post, this is not one of them.

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 Post subject: Re: Rules Discussion forum rules
AgePosted: 2015-Mar-28 6:59 am 
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Joined: 2008-Mar-24 12:14 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Oakland, CA
Joz wrote:
I can't believe I pressed the "report" button twice in the last twenty-four some hours.

Careful, there, buddy. You just earned yourself a "Report" for violation of Rule 4.


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 Post subject: Re: Rules Discussion forum rules
AgePosted: 2015-Mar-28 7:01 am 
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Joined: 2008-Mar-24 12:14 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Oakland, CA
intreped wrote:
Careful, there, buddy. You just earned yourself a "Report" for violation of Rule 4.

Hey, you too!

. . .

Uh, oh, I seem to be trapped here.


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 Post subject: Re: Rules Discussion forum rules
AgePosted: 2015-Mar-28 7:03 am 

Joined: 2010-Sep-11 12:19 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
intreped wrote:
intreped wrote:
Careful, there, buddy. You just earned yourself a "Report" for violation of Rule 4.

Hey, you too!

. . .

Uh, oh, I seem to be trapped here.



Stifle

There, I saved you from the loop.


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 Post subject: Re: Rules Discussion forum rules
AgePosted: 2015-Mar-28 7:29 am 

Joined: 2015-Jan-14 2:58 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Joz wrote:
intreped wrote:
intreped wrote:
Careful, there, buddy. You just earned yourself a "Report" for violation of Rule 4.

Hey, you too!

. . .

Uh, oh, I seem to be trapped here.



Stifle

There, I saved you from the loop.


Can't do that. Post reports are like manna from heaven. Stifle doesn't counter mana abilities.

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Antis wrote:
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 Post subject: Re: Rules Discussion forum rules
AgePosted: 2015-Mar-29 4:19 am 
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Joined: 2014-Apr-20 10:58 pm
Age: Wyvern
Location: Urborg
is Braids, cabal minion only banned as a general or entirely from commander format?


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 Post subject: Re: Rules Discussion forum rules
AgePosted: 2015-Mar-29 5:15 am 

Joined: 2010-Sep-11 12:19 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Greatjobbud91 wrote:
is Braids, cabal minion only banned as a general or entirely from commander format?

You can use it in Legendary Leaders, as part of the 99, but not as your general. Its completely banned in commander though.


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 Post subject: Re: Rules Discussion forum rules
AgePosted: 2017-May-03 5:02 am 

Joined: 2008-Nov-24 2:16 pm
Age: Dragon
1 and 2 contradict each other. Either something breaks the rules or it doesn't. Otherwise it just leads to favoritism in banning and infractions. Or whatever system you use.
4. Half the posts in this very thread break this rule and the wording breaks rule 1.
3. I also find it highly ironic that people who participated in this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2075&start=0&hilit=earthbind
are going to decide what is appropriate.


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