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 Post subject: Re: Why is Emrakul still banned? - A pleading
AgePosted: 2016-Aug-03 6:30 pm 
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Joined: 2015-Mar-18 12:55 pm
Age: Drake
specter404 wrote:
tackle74 wrote:
Clearly your a pompous SOB. I used Geddon back in the black summer in ErnhamGeddon and know perfectly how to use it. You just don't seem to understand that I simply do not care if Emrakul on her own can wreck a game because this is the key point it is a GAME. I used Armageddon in comparison because so many people hate the card as well.


Tackle, we need to talk.

Firstly, calling someone a pompous SOB in your first few posts on a forum isn't going to win you any respect. The comment may be accurate, but you could get to know how the place works before throwing insults around. Playing Armageddon in standard does not qualify you to know it's place in commander.

Secondly you may want to take some time to browse the forums and get a feel for how we do things here. I'm far from the most experienced poster, but what I have learned is that most people around here espouse the ideas of fun and casual commander games. They want to sit down and have a good back and forth interactive game where they play some spells, the opponents play some spells and eventually someone wins.

The focus here is on interaction, all players doing things. While it's just a game, and we shouldn't get upset about losing, I don't think it's unreasonable to be annoyed when someone briberies an emrakul out early, and smacks me with it, putting me to zero permanents. This would mean I don't actually get to play the game. If I'm not playing, it's no longer "just a game", It's me sitting around saying draw-go while other people play.

Now the logical response is to say "You can interact with geddon/emmy/whatever, you just use these spells", and it's not hard to find cards you can use to fight something. However the concern is that Emrakul and many other cards on the banned list, drastically reduce and discourage interaction. If you don't answer Emrakul when she is played, you are unlikely to be able to interact in the future.

In summary, I don't mind losing, losing is good, it means I get to play a new game, what I don't like is being neutered and left to die slowly and without a fight. Basically, when it comes to commander, I want you to stab me through the heart, not cut off my balls.


I laughed at the bolded part. Also, I don't think your browser likes apostrophes.

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Sheldon wrote:
The cards didn't just warp the way the games were played, they warped how I was conceiving and perceiving the format. That's the sign of a problem.

Carthain wrote:
The idea that you should be able to build your deck however you want and still be competitive is false, and a bad idea to have. Taken to the extreme, that's like making a deck with no removal in it, and then complaining that you can't win because stuff your opponents play gets in your way.


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 Post subject: Re: Why is Emrakul still banned? - A pleading
AgePosted: 2016-Aug-04 9:44 am 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
tackle74 wrote:
Clearly your a pompous SOB. I used Geddon back in the black summer in ErnhamGeddon and know perfectly how to use it. You just don't seem to understand that I simply do not care if Emrakul on her own can wreck a game because this is the key point it is a GAME.

Holier-than-thou attitude aside, you've missed the point. Emrakul isn't banned because it occasionally wrecked a game. It's banned because it ruined practically every game. It became so ubiquitous that EDH became a game of "who can get Emrakul to stick first".

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 Post subject: Re: Why is Emrakul still banned? - A pleading
AgePosted: 2016-Aug-04 1:15 pm 
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Joined: 2014-Jul-28 8:30 am
Age: Dragon
Sid the Chicken wrote:
Holier-than-thou attitude aside, you've missed the point. Emrakul isn't banned because it occasionally wrecked a game. It's banned because it ruined practically every game. It became so ubiquitous that EDH became a game of "who can get Emrakul to stick first".


Would you go so far as to say that it warped the format into Emrakul Destroys Highlander?

Image

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specter404 wrote:
Basically, when it comes to commander, I want you to stab me through the heart, not cut off my balls.

Gath Immortal wrote:
Twenty Kavus and a Dream is not a legacy deck.


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 Post subject: Re: Why is Emrakul still banned? - A pleading
AgePosted: 2016-Aug-07 7:28 am 
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Joined: 2011-Nov-16 1:14 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Prague, Heart of Europe
I wasn't there when Emmy was legal in EDH, but I approve her banned status. Trying to compare her with Yosei or Emmy 2.0 in terms of power is laughable. I run Pathrazer of Ulamog in my Rakdos. I've witnessed firsthand what an annihilator 3 can do to people on turn five. I don't want to even imagine that being 6 plus Time Walk.

What I'm really surprised at, however, is that in seven pages of Emrakul discussion nobody has mentioned Erratic Portal yet. I mean, c'mon, people :P

Also, how the hell does an Emrakul thread make me want to build a Phage deck? MADNESS!!! :evil:

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In my early teens I was a Timmy.
In my late teens I was a Spike.
In my 20's I was a Johnny.
Now, I just like to play.
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Currently hiring servants for my palace, made from my own walls of text.


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 Post subject: Re: Why is Emrakul still banned? - A pleading
AgePosted: 2016-Aug-07 10:08 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
kirkusjones wrote:
Would you go so far as to say that it warped the format into Emrakul Destroys Highlander?

Indeed.

Antis wrote:
in seven pages of Emrakul discussion nobody has mentioned Erratic Portal yet.

That's because while that's kinda lame, if you've got the mana to hardcast Emmy, it's not really unfair. And at that point, the game just ends and you can move on, rather than a slow march toward oblivion, or one player getting absolutely wrecked and becoming a spectator for the next hour.

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"The President's job - and if someone sufficiently vain and stupid is picked he won't realize this - is not to wield power, but to draw attention away from it." -- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide tot he Galaxy Radio Transcripts predicting the future.


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 Post subject: Re: Why is Emrakul still banned? - A pleading
AgePosted: 2016-Aug-09 6:28 am 

Joined: 2009-Apr-21 3:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Palm Springs Area, CA
Sid the Chicken wrote:

Antis wrote:
in seven pages of Emrakul discussion nobody has mentioned Erratic Portal yet.

That's because while that's kinda lame, if you've got the mana to hardcast Emmy, it's not really unfair. And at that point, the game just ends and you can move on, rather than a slow march toward oblivion, or one player getting absolutely wrecked and becoming a spectator for the next hour.

I think its fair to mention. Even when hardcast we often saw emmy killed, shuffled, and tutored back up again. Each time it was pretty crappy for the one guy who ended up getting smashed in the face.

It was far more fair... but not any more fun.

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 Post subject: Re: Why is Emrakul still banned? - A pleading
AgePosted: 2016-Aug-09 7:01 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Nov-16 1:14 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Prague, Heart of Europe
The discussion essentially boils down to which part of Emmy is the worst. For example, I would argue that if you took away her cast trigger, she probably wouldn't be banned. Hardcasting Emrakul is THE worst thing for your opponents because with the extra turn, she is basically a giant Peregrine Drake with haste. I think no one's disputing THAT. Without the Time Warp, yes, you can still Bribe her out, you can still Sneak Attack with her, but the same thing can be done with Blightsteel Colossus and no one is banning that.

Bottom line is that for me, the thing that pushes her over the ban treshold is the cast trigger.

P.S.: And yes, I did just put the words "ban treshold" in a sentence :twisted: Quote mining shield—ON.

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I could be wrong. I'm just not in the mood.
tempesteye wrote:
In my early teens I was a Timmy.
In my late teens I was a Spike.
In my 20's I was a Johnny.
Now, I just like to play.
'Active decks' list here.
Currently hiring servants for my palace, made from my own walls of text.


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 Post subject: Re: Why is Emrakul still banned? - A pleading
AgePosted: 2016-Aug-10 2:12 pm 

Joined: 2014-Sep-13 7:28 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Blightsteel can reasonably be handle by blocking with a Solemn to bide time. Ofc, barring like board wipes or enabling hijinks to ensure the oneshot. As a pressure animal it might take two attacks. Emrakul is nearly be unblockable, even though it doesn't kill in one hit. It cripples and adds misery.

I think maybe if it were annihilator 4 and no extra turn, or no annihilator but still with extra turn. She's just good for too many reasons for it to be one thing, i think for the most part. Annihilator 6 plus extra turn might be fine without uncounterability/flying/protection all in one.

It's really cool design that they return to library - both for the flavor of "we're inevitable, we will never die" and for balancing a lot of reanimator hijinks. But i think it would have also been interesting if they were exiled instead of hitting yard, as though they return to the Blind Eternities.


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 Post subject: Re: Why is Emrakul still banned? - A pleading
AgePosted: 2016-Aug-14 6:10 am 

Joined: 2016-Aug-14 4:05 am
Age: Wyvern
Hi

Being a proud owner of Emrakul, Aeons torn and a lover of EDH I would like to add my 2 cents to the pile.

Emrakul Aeons Torn is the only card in magic that wins game by simply showing up, not even attacking once, players quit, its amazing, this card, that version/iteration owns my heart but E.A.T (Emrakul, Aeons torn) is banned because annihilator 6 is insane already, protection from colours is a game winning combo already despite costing 15 its simply a matter of cheating this creature into play more often then not, who cares about an extra turn (which when cast could basically be considered '' Elder Eldrazi haste'') when you got 15/15 flyer on the board with aforementioned skills oh and it can't be bloody countered if you cast it! and the cherry on top...there's a cherry on top?, why yes there is, it's the ability to re-shuffle your deck with E.A.T in it so the only way to deal with these elder eldrazi is: EXILE, EXILE, EXILE! You would have to be blind, no offense just a figure of expression, to think this card should be allowed compared to old kozilek and ulamog they are more balanced. Lol, I write that after the last game I played I got hit 2 times with old kozilek and sacked 8 permanents to his hungry maw but good ol' Sarkan Vol R/G version took control of Kozilek 2 times giving my opponent a taste of their own medicine which in turn allowed the third player to win :lol: but that is strangely more balanced then E.A.T as its nigh impossible to deal with, it eats hope to put it mildly.

The new Emrakul of the promised end (E.P.E) is a far more interestingly balanced version, a 13/13 trample, flyer, immune to instants, if cast has mindslaver ability on opponent and can cost 1 less for each card type in graveyard. I am unsure if the new Emrakul could be a better commander then Kozilek and Ulamogs new version. I almost think the new ulamog of ceasless hunger (U.C.H)could be considered a next on the ban block, immediately exiling 2 permanents and when attacking exile 20 cards off of opponents library (now imagine also adding strionic resonator and bright hearth rings to that trigger) seems criminal but that's the tipping point isn't it? Kozilek, the great distortion (K.G.D.) he's not so bad despite being able to basically counter anything if the deck is built right and the mana acceleration due to artifacts is unreal but still seems far more balanced then E.A.T and U.C.H. Players may balk at seeing any elder eldrazi but it tends to be more about the mechanics/abilities then the numbers, thus out of the three newer versions, K.G.D is the least scary, strange a 12/12 menace is less scary then... exiling 2 permanents on entrance and 20 exiled cards off of deck when attacks or mindslaver ability 13/13 flying trample but annihilator in general seems to be what most players grumble about, probably one of the more annoying abilities in MTG, sitting cozy beside infect, perhaps?

More interesting to me is that it's not considered odd that all commander decks have certain cards that are the same in all decks, ie: sol ring, tutor, and a re-shuffle graveyard into deck card (ie:elixir of immortality). That in itself I find format bending that everyone seems to use these key cards and makes me think that WOTC should always include in every new commander set deck. In singletons format its always good to get multiple uses out of a single card I get that, hence why the older eldrazi are A+ in amazing: permanent elimination, graveyard re-shuffling, giant creature, cool casting effect, all in all a very efficient package. So when you ask yourself why E.A.T banned (Gruul translation: grrr, argh?!?!), just remind yourself that 2/3 of these older versioned monsters being allowed in commander is amazing since their home is close to Ban-town, they like being close to their sister who lives in Ban-town.

cheers


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 Post subject: Re: Why is Emrakul still banned? - A pleading
AgePosted: 2016-Aug-14 2:58 pm 

Joined: 2012-May-21 2:31 pm
Age: Drake
Antis wrote:
Also, how the hell does an Emrakul thread make me want to build a Phage deck? MADNESS!!! :evil:
Because Phage EDH is fun and old Emrakul EDH is not fun.


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