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 Post subject: Simple rules question
AgePosted: 2016-Oct-06 12:01 am 

Joined: 2016-Mar-16 12:03 pm
Age: Drake
If I allow someone to take my Commander (stupid, I know, but work with me), and then they try to alpha strike me using the general, is it still my commander that I can scoop at any time?

Same idea if it's put in my graveyard, deck, or hand.

Or is it only when the commander is under your control in your battlefield? This could actually matter in a deck I just built where I can use Reins of Power to steal their stuff.

_________________
Current decks:
Xenagos, God of Revels - Hydras

Under Re-Construction:
Hazezon Tamar - Defenders of Dune (only 8 less Fremen/equipment, adding ramp and answers)
Prime Speaker Zegana - Zegana's R&D
Jenara, Asura of War - Jenara's Celestial Army (needs more answers, ramp, less angels...turns out Jenara can tank quite effectively as a voltron.)

Nuked decks:
Sliver Queen - Tokens (converted back to the 60 card deck it originated from, ending its edh dependency on tutors)


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 Post subject: Re: Simple rules question
AgePosted: 2016-Oct-06 12:23 am 
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Joined: 2006-Dec-31 12:26 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Nothing can stop you from conceding, not even someone else controlling your turn (and, they can't make you concede). Also, conceding doesn't matter where your commander is.

So yes, if someone else controls your Commander, you can just scoop and remove all the cards you own (ie, started in your deck) from the game.

Typically though, doing such a thing is kind-of a jerk move. Especially if you're about to die -- just let the player have his glory, you just need to sit there for another 2 minutes or so. If someone is controlling your stuff and alpha-striking someone else to kill them, and you concede so that the attack will no longer kill the person -- definitely a jerk move.


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 Post subject: Re: Simple rules question
AgePosted: 2016-Oct-06 1:10 am 

Joined: 2016-Mar-16 12:03 pm
Age: Drake
Actually, the question is more like can I exile the Commander to the commander zone from any zone other than the battlefield? And part two is do I have to have control my commander to exile my commander?

Apologies for the previously badly worded question! :P

_________________
Current decks:
Xenagos, God of Revels - Hydras

Under Re-Construction:
Hazezon Tamar - Defenders of Dune (only 8 less Fremen/equipment, adding ramp and answers)
Prime Speaker Zegana - Zegana's R&D
Jenara, Asura of War - Jenara's Celestial Army (needs more answers, ramp, less angels...turns out Jenara can tank quite effectively as a voltron.)

Nuked decks:
Sliver Queen - Tokens (converted back to the 60 card deck it originated from, ending its edh dependency on tutors)


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 Post subject: Re: Simple rules question
AgePosted: 2016-Oct-06 1:12 am 

Joined: 2011-Aug-18 3:35 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Arcane Archer wrote:
Actually, the question is more like can I exile the Commander to the commander zone from any zone other than the battlefield? And part two is do I have to have control my commander to exile my commander?

Apologies for the previously badly worded question! :P


You can't just randomly command zone your commander. You can only apply the effect on zone changing.


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 Post subject: Re: Simple rules question
AgePosted: 2016-Oct-06 1:22 am 
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Joined: 2006-Dec-31 12:26 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Arcane Archer wrote:
Actually, the question is more like can I exile the Commander to the commander zone from any zone other than the battlefield? And part two is do I have to have control my commander to exile my commander?

Apologies for the previously badly worded question! :P

Ahhh.

As Epsilon says - you can't just cause your commander to change zones. But, if it is changing zones into the exile, hand, or library zone, you can replace that zone movement with moving it to the command zone.

So you would still need to Terminate (for example) your commander to do that.


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 Post subject: Re: Simple rules question
AgePosted: 2016-Oct-06 1:47 am 

Joined: 2008-Aug-08 6:34 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Rouen, France
Carthain wrote:
Arcane Archer wrote:
Actually, the question is more like can I exile the Commander to the commander zone from any zone other than the battlefield? And part two is do I have to have control my commander to exile my commander?

Apologies for the previously badly worded question! :P

Ahhh.

As Epsilon says - you can't just cause your commander to change zones. But, if it is changing zones into the exile, hand, or library zone, you can replace that zone movement with moving it to the command zone.

So you would still need to Terminate (for example) your commander to do that.


Wasn't there a work-around to stop people permanently exiling commanders when they controlled other people's turns? Or is that still a thing?

_________________
Current decks:
Sydri's random pile of cards with "Artifact" on them
Scarab God Zombie Horde
Sissay 5c Superfriends
Morophon Eldrazi (5C Devoid)
Grenzo's Goblins


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 Post subject: Re: Simple rules question
AgePosted: 2016-Oct-06 1:52 am 
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Joined: 2006-Dec-31 12:26 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
As far as I know that's still a thing.

I mean, it's easy enough to house-rule that controlling a players turn doesn't let you make the choice on to use the commander replacement effect or not, but I'm pretty sure it's only a houserule.

I think it happens rarely enough now that it may not be considered worth the 'added complexity' to cut out that loophole.


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 Post subject: Re: Simple rules question
AgePosted: 2016-Oct-06 2:42 am 

Joined: 2016-Mar-16 12:03 pm
Age: Drake
So then one more follow-up. If someone uses an instant to control my commander, it is changing from my side of the battlefield to theirs. Does that count as a instance where I can replace that movement with sending the commander back to the commander zone?

This kind of stuff has confused my group. We were under the impression that if someone didn't like what someone was targeting their commander with Pacifism, they could use the Commander function. I guess that was wrong...we thought it was kind if ridiculous, but we thought was the actual rule.

_________________
Current decks:
Xenagos, God of Revels - Hydras

Under Re-Construction:
Hazezon Tamar - Defenders of Dune (only 8 less Fremen/equipment, adding ramp and answers)
Prime Speaker Zegana - Zegana's R&D
Jenara, Asura of War - Jenara's Celestial Army (needs more answers, ramp, less angels...turns out Jenara can tank quite effectively as a voltron.)

Nuked decks:
Sliver Queen - Tokens (converted back to the 60 card deck it originated from, ending its edh dependency on tutors)


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 Post subject: Re: Simple rules question
AgePosted: 2016-Oct-06 3:06 am 

Joined: 2011-Aug-18 3:35 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Arcane Archer wrote:
So then one more follow-up. If someone uses an instant to control my commander, it is changing from my side of the battlefield to theirs. Does that count as a instance where I can replace that movement with sending the commander back to the commander zone?

This kind of stuff has confused my group. We were under the impression that if someone didn't like what someone was targeting their commander with Pacifism, they could use the Commander function. I guess that was wrong...we thought it was kind if ridiculous, but we thought was the actual rule.


A control or state change is not a zone change. It's still on the battlefield, it's just serving someone else.

Play instant speed sacrifice outlets to prevent theft or pacifism effects being played on your commander for value.


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 Post subject: Re: Simple rules question
AgePosted: 2016-Oct-06 4:04 am 
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Joined: 2011-Nov-16 1:14 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Prague, Heart of Europe
Turns out that stealing is one of the more reliable ways of getting rid of enemy commanders. For extra fun, you can try out cards like Desertion, Gather Specimens and Commandeer, which basically steal their commander from the stack so it comes onto the battlefield already on your side and they don't even have a chance to sacrifice it :twisted:

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I could be wrong. I'm just not in the mood.
tempesteye wrote:
In my early teens I was a Timmy.
In my late teens I was a Spike.
In my 20's I was a Johnny.
Now, I just like to play.
'Active decks' list here.
Currently hiring servants for my palace, made from my own walls of text.


Last edited by Antis on 2016-Oct-06 5:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Simple rules question
AgePosted: 2016-Oct-06 4:12 am 
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Joined: 2006-Dec-31 12:26 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Antis wrote:
Turns out that stealing is one of the more reliable ways of getting rid of enemy commanders. For extra fun, you can try out cards like Desertion, Gather Specimens and Commandeer, which basically steal their commander from the stack so it comes onto the battlefieod already on your side and they don't even have a chance to sacrifice it :twisted:

Just a head's up: Commandeer says "non-creature" ;) So, there will be very few commanders you can use this on.

Arcane Archer wrote:
So then one more follow-up. If someone uses an instant to control my commander, it is changing from my side of the battlefield to theirs. Does that count as a instance where I can replace that movement with sending the commander back to the commander zone?

Take a look at the rules posted on this site -- they're in friendly, easy to understand terms (and not the lawyer-ese that the Comprehensive Rules are written in). Hopefully it can clear up anything -- and, if you still have questions, feel free to ask.

The rules there say this about the zone-change rule: "If a Commander would be put into a library, hand, graveyard or exile from anywhere, its owner may choose to move it to the command zone instead."

So it's only in certain situations that you can move your commander to the command zone.


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 Post subject: Re: Simple rules question
AgePosted: 2016-Oct-06 6:00 am 
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Joined: 2011-Nov-16 1:14 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Prague, Heart of Europe
Carthain wrote:
Just a head's up: Commandeer says "non-creature" ;) So, there will be very few commanders you can use this on.
Oops, my bad. Still, technically possible (thanks, Freyalise and friends!).

_________________
I could be wrong. I'm just not in the mood.
tempesteye wrote:
In my early teens I was a Timmy.
In my late teens I was a Spike.
In my 20's I was a Johnny.
Now, I just like to play.
'Active decks' list here.
Currently hiring servants for my palace, made from my own walls of text.


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 Post subject: Re: Simple rules question
AgePosted: 2016-Oct-06 7:32 am 
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Joined: 2006-Dec-31 12:26 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Antis wrote:
Carthain wrote:
Just a head's up: Commandeer says "non-creature" ;) So, there will be very few commanders you can use this on.
Oops, my bad. Still, technically possible (thanks, Freyalise and friends!).

I'm a little rough on this though: Are the Theros Gods always creatures on the stack?


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 Post subject: Re: Simple rules question
AgePosted: 2016-Oct-06 7:47 am 

Joined: 2008-Jan-25 8:26 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Calgary
Yes.

Gatherer wrote:
The type-changing ability that can make the God not be a creature functions only on the battlefield. It’s always a creature card in other zones, regardless of your devotion to its color.

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"(P)art of the joy of Commander (is) being forced to work with what we (have), even if it (isn't) optimal. Optimal usually isn't that interesting." - papa funk


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 Post subject: Re: Simple rules question
AgePosted: 2016-Oct-06 7:59 am 
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Joined: 2006-Dec-31 12:26 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Cool, thanks.


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