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 Post subject: Anvil of Bogardan and miracles
AgePosted: 2017-Jan-04 5:28 am 
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Joined: 2012-Jan-06 10:25 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Seattle
Ran into a situation the other night. I had Anvil of Bogardan and Leovold, Emissary of Trest in play at the same time. Opponent gets to his draw step and pulls a Bonfire of the Damned as his first draw.

We came to the conclusion that he could cast the bonfire in response to the Anvil trigger (before it makes him discard it) because the Anvil trigger happens after the first draw. Thought I'd post here and double check since no one was sure at the time.

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Glissa, the Traitor -> Voltron
Mayael the Anima -> Flopping Fatties
Phenax, God of Deception -> Grave Rats
Starke of Rath -> Wrath of Starke: MRC

Proving Grounds: Drawmia-maro, Titania When Lands Attack, Tromokratis Read it Again, Kaalia's Klerics, Hordes of Tribes.


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 Post subject: Re: Anvil of Bogardan and miracles
AgePosted: 2017-Jan-04 5:40 am 

Joined: 2014-Sep-13 7:28 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Miracle and Anvil are both triggered abilities, they will be put onto the stack in active player, non-active player order. Anvil forces the discard first.

With miracle trigger, you reveal it and when the ability resolves you decide to cast or not to cast.

In legacy i jam Stifle a lot and it's a 1 mana counterspell for miracle.

Some rulings linked to triggers and miracle:

Quote:
702.93a Miracle is a static ability linked to a triggered ability (see rule 603.11). “Miracle cost” means “You may reveal this card from your hand as you draw it if it’s the first card you’ve drawn this turn. When you reveal this card this way, you may cast it by paying [cost] rather than its mana cost.”
702.93b If a player chooses to reveal a card using its miracle ability, he or she plays with that card revealed until that card leaves his or her hand, that ability resolves, or that ability otherwise leaves the stack.

You cast the card with miracle during the resolution of the triggered ability. Ignore any timing restrictions based on the card's type.

If the card with miracle leaves your hand before the triggered ability resolves, you won't be able to cast it using its miracle ability.

Quote:
603.3b If multiple abilities have triggered since the last time a player received priority, each player, in APNAP order, puts triggered abilities he or she controls on the stack in any order he or she chooses. (See rule 101.4.) Then the game once again checks for and resolves state-based actions until none are performed, then abilities that triggered during this process go on the stack. This process repeats until no new state-based actions are performed and no abilities trigger. Then the appropriate player gets priority.


edit: Of note with APNAP order, this how Phenax, God of Deception and Undead Alchemist can exile an Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre. You use Phenax's ability on your turn and hit Ula, it will get reshuffled. You use Phenax on the turn of the player who has an Ula in their deck and hit it, Alchemist will exile it.

This doesn't matter to Anvil, of course, though.


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 Post subject: Re: Anvil of Bogardan and miracles
AgePosted: 2017-Jan-04 6:56 am 

Joined: 2016-Aug-15 1:21 pm
Age: Drake
I think Anvil of Bogarden's effect triggers after a player draws their first card, since it says 'during each player's draw phase', not 'at the beginning of'. Which would probably mean the player can cast a card for it's miracle cost, but still has to discard a different card, if they have one.

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 Post subject: Re: Anvil of Bogardan and miracles
AgePosted: 2017-Jan-04 7:41 am 
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Joined: 2012-Jan-06 10:25 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Seattle
That's what we thought and went with.

However, I did not know a Miracle was a triggered ability. That with APNAP would mean the Bonfire would have been discarded by Anvil before it could resolve.

Fun! I like being wrong on things like this :)

_________________
Glissa, the Traitor -> Voltron
Mayael the Anima -> Flopping Fatties
Phenax, God of Deception -> Grave Rats
Starke of Rath -> Wrath of Starke: MRC

Proving Grounds: Drawmia-maro, Titania When Lands Attack, Tromokratis Read it Again, Kaalia's Klerics, Hordes of Tribes.


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 Post subject: Re: Anvil of Bogardan and miracles
AgePosted: 2017-Jan-05 2:33 am 

Joined: 2016-Feb-13 2:14 pm
Age: Dragon
Location: Orlando, Florida
Not quite. For the triggers it goes something like this:

1. Put Anvil of Bogarden on the stack.
2. Draw a card for turn.
3. Oh shit, miracle time!
4. Resolve Miracle.
5. Resolve Anvil.


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 Post subject: Re: Anvil of Bogardan and miracles
AgePosted: 2017-Jan-05 3:03 am 
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Joined: 2012-Jan-06 10:25 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Seattle
Marit Lage wrote:
Not quite. For the triggers it goes something like this:

1. Put Anvil of Bogarden on the stack.
2. Draw a card for turn.
3. Oh shit, miracle time!
4. Resolve Miracle.
5. Resolve Anvil.


Wouldn't it be:

1. draw a card
2. Miracle goes on the stack (Active player's trigger)
3. Anvil goes on the stack (Non-active player)
4. Anvil resolves. Player can't draw due to Leovold. Anvil forces discard of Miracle
5. Miracle cannot resolve because the card is gone

From Anvil on Gatherer
4/15/2013 The triggered ability is put onto the stack after you have already drawn your card for the turn

_________________
Glissa, the Traitor -> Voltron
Mayael the Anima -> Flopping Fatties
Phenax, God of Deception -> Grave Rats
Starke of Rath -> Wrath of Starke: MRC

Proving Grounds: Drawmia-maro, Titania When Lands Attack, Tromokratis Read it Again, Kaalia's Klerics, Hordes of Tribes.


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 Post subject: Re: Anvil of Bogardan and miracles
AgePosted: 2017-Jan-05 11:33 am 

Joined: 2014-Sep-13 7:28 am
Age: Elder Dragon
^ Scatteredsun is correct.

Not just Anvil, all triggered abilities that trigger in the draw step are after your normal turn draw. There's not a lot of those of course but notably Sylvan Library is one.


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 Post subject: Re: Anvil of Bogardan and miracles
AgePosted: 2017-Feb-15 12:38 am 

Joined: 2015-Apr-23 11:27 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Antwerp, Belgium
Just to be sure... you can just discard another card in your hand and still cast Bonfire for mirace cost, right? I don't see why it should be Bonfire that's discarded, unless you're empty handed.


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 Post subject: Re: Anvil of Bogardan and miracles
AgePosted: 2017-Feb-15 3:34 am 
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Joined: 2012-Jan-06 10:25 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Seattle
Correct, in this case everyone was in top-deck mode.

_________________
Glissa, the Traitor -> Voltron
Mayael the Anima -> Flopping Fatties
Phenax, God of Deception -> Grave Rats
Starke of Rath -> Wrath of Starke: MRC

Proving Grounds: Drawmia-maro, Titania When Lands Attack, Tromokratis Read it Again, Kaalia's Klerics, Hordes of Tribes.


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