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 Post subject: Breya being Banned in Duel Commander
AgePosted: 2017-Apr-27 10:52 am 

Joined: 2017-Apr-27 10:37 am
Age: Egg
The new banned list in Duel Commander has outraged me for Breya, Etherium Shaper has been banned as a commander.

This is outraging so many that play the Duel Commander format. But I am not sure how to say it here.


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 Post subject: Re: Breya being Banned in Duel Commander
AgePosted: 2017-Apr-27 11:30 am 

Joined: 2014-Sep-13 7:28 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Well, you already said it.

But this is not really a DC forum, i don't think more than a small portion of people here play it.

I hear a lot of bad things about it, and a lot of upset voices about the structure. I would like to try some 1v1 commander but i never got into DC :/


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 Post subject: Re: Breya being Banned in Duel Commander
AgePosted: 2017-Apr-27 1:11 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Feb-07 4:15 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
I literally cannot figure out why half the shit in that format is banned. Oloro? Marath? Vial Smasher? Necrotic Ooze? Mind Twist? Loyal Retainers? Treasure Cruise? Dig Through Time? It seems as in the only justification for half the banlist is "It's kinda undercosted" or "Some combo decks use it to help win".


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 Post subject: Re: Breya being Banned in Duel Commander
AgePosted: 2017-Apr-27 1:27 pm 

Joined: 2009-Apr-21 3:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Palm Springs Area, CA
I kinda get why Oloro is banned. It might be too easy to shut out an aggro strategy with him... maybe?

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 Post subject: Re: Breya being Banned in Duel Commander
AgePosted: 2017-Apr-27 1:56 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
Uktabi_Kong wrote:
I literally cannot figure out why half the shit in that format is banned. Oloro? Marath? Vial Smasher? Necrotic Ooze? Mind Twist? Loyal Retainers? Treasure Cruise? Dig Through Time? It seems as in the only justification for half the banlist is "It's kinda undercosted" or "Some combo decks use it to help win".

I think two things are in play: first, attempts to make Commander 'competitive' will virtually always result in some Legacy/Vintage-esque format; second, overly irrational discontent with how the RC bans cards results in pandering to the crowd or arbitrarily, continually getting rid of whatever is the current top deck.

These motivations don't always lead to logical bannings, especially when the second motivation is large (in this case, it very much appears to be).

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 Post subject: Re: Breya being Banned in Duel Commander
AgePosted: 2017-Apr-27 3:25 pm 

Joined: 2014-Sep-13 7:28 am
Age: Elder Dragon
I'd actually be so down for a no-banlist (well, Vintage-legal list) format.



niheloim wrote:
I kinda get why Oloro is banned. It might be too easy to shut out an aggro strategy with him... maybe?

Yea but they also banned him when the format was still at 30 life. So... lol? Dropping 10 points off the life total helped aggro already.

However, playing an opponent starting at 30 life with you at essentially 40 is not as significant as facing an opponent at 20 and you at 30.

Uktabi_Kong wrote:
I literally cannot figure out why half the shit in that format is banned. Oloro? Marath? Vial Smasher? Necrotic Ooze? Mind Twist? Loyal Retainers? Treasure Cruise? Dig Through Time? It seems as in the only justification for half the banlist is "It's kinda undercosted" or "Some combo decks use it to help win".

Idk, this is basically why i can't get into it. You can cast Dig in Vintage and Legacy... The card is actually worse in this format. I'm guessing banning Dig and Cruise made it slightly less preferable to choose blue/specific commander, and balances the format in that way? Cause the card itself doesn't seem broken on the surface.


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 Post subject: Re: Breya being Banned in Duel Commander
AgePosted: 2017-Apr-28 1:16 am 
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Joined: 2014-Jul-28 8:30 am
Age: Dragon
DTT has been banned in legacy for a year or two, thank gourd.

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 Post subject: Re: Breya being Banned in Duel Commander
AgePosted: 2017-Apr-28 2:00 am 
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Joined: 2017-Mar-11 6:43 am
Age: Dragon
DC has always sortof... failed to understand what makes EDH work imo (but that's because EDH is perfectly playable between 2 people.) At an LGS I used to attend to, "French" became popular for a time, which actually impacted regular EDH in some pretty awful ways (players would jam their "French" deck because they lacked another deck, or felt that the French deck was more powerful than their fun EDH proper decks.) Consequently, that meant that the number of policing, combobreaking, or otherwise "Fair Enforcement" decks were in short supply (I would get dragged into EDH marathons because my brews tend to focus on combobreaking and encouraging margin/value based play.) This is probably the only period of enjoying EDH that I experienced a level of fatigue that made me just not want to touch the format whatsoever.

With that in mind, in EDH proper, we have the benefit of having our guidelines given by high level judges, instead of salty players' demands. I actually dug the banlist for French on my initial appraisal, because I think Mana Crypt, Mana Vault, Grim Monolith and Sensei's Divining Top effect the relative power-level of EDH far too much- but then I noticed the number of tutors banned, and I realized that it doesn't really want to embrace Highlander as a format. DC wants to balance itself as 100 Card Singleton Legacy, for people who probably just don't want to actually use the funds for playsets in a real Legacy deck.

Which brings us back to Breya. I have a hard time seeing her a problem without access to Vault, Crypt, Monolith, Top, Chrome Mox, Mox Diamond, Mishra's Workshop, Sol Ring, Vampiric Tutor, or even Loyal Retainers and Treasure Cruise. This is quite simply a design philosophy of deck-banning, where it may have been more appropriate to ban Krark-Clan Ironworks if Breya showed herself to be oppressive (because, I would wager that Sharuum the Hegemon, and Sen Triplets would be far more oppressive artifact generals if not for Ironworks + Deathmantle or similar looping)

Also lol, Tasigur is banned as a general. "It's strongish, we need to ban it"

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 Post subject: Re: Breya being Banned in Duel Commander
AgePosted: 2017-Apr-28 2:51 am 

Joined: 2014-Sep-13 7:28 am
Age: Elder Dragon
kirkusjones wrote:
DTT has been banned in legacy for a year or two, thank gourd.

Oh, my bad. I don't think i was looking at something up to date.

I stand by the statement that it's not busted in 99 card singleton, though.


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 Post subject: Re: Breya being Banned in Duel Commander
AgePosted: 2017-Apr-28 8:07 am 
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Joined: 2014-Jul-28 8:30 am
Age: Dragon
Sovarius wrote:
kirkusjones wrote:
DTT has been banned in legacy for a year or two, thank gourd.

Oh, my bad. I don't think i was looking at something up to date.

I stand by the statement that it's not busted in 99 card singleton, though.


Definitely agree, I ran it in my terrible Circu, Dimir Lobotomist pile.

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specter404 wrote:
Basically, when it comes to commander, I want you to stab me through the heart, not cut off my balls.

Gath Immortal wrote:
Twenty Kavus and a Dream is not a legacy deck.


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 Post subject: Re: Breya being Banned in Duel Commander
AgePosted: 2017-Apr-30 2:04 am 
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Joined: 2012-Dec-25 1:37 am
Age: Elder Dragon
I've never played Duel Commander, but reading through this thread, and knowing about the recent scandal that is happening in the format (The French vs. The Leviathan War), I can only conclude two things: either the managers of the format really, really suck at their jobs; or Commander simply doesn't work outside multiplayer. At least not how the rules are currently written. I guess having constant access to a legendary creature unbalances the format in such a way that you need to ban a ton of cards, half of which that make no sense to ignorant people like me, just to try and keep the format balanced and diverse. Maybe it's time to retire the format and start over with a different set of rules more appropriate to a competitive format? Like, for instance, only allow cards legal in Modern? Just a thought.

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 Post subject: Re: Breya being Banned in Duel Commander
AgePosted: 2017-May-01 2:47 am 

Joined: 2012-Oct-24 8:05 pm
Age: Drake
Sovarius wrote:
I'd actually be so down for a no-banlist (well, Vintage-legal list) format.

Laboratory Maniacs tried that. It was just "Who can assemble Time Vault + Voltaic Key first?" Obviously, you don't have to build that way, but if you're building casually, why do you need those cards?


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