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 Post subject: Making UN-cards legal and why it is the worst decision ever.
AgePosted: 2017-Nov-30 7:15 pm 

Joined: 2017-Nov-30 7:06 pm
Age: Hatchling
I’ve always stood by RC and I’ve never bothered to create an account in here because there was no need for that. However today’s decision of making UN-cards legal for over a month is a tasteless joke. I hate this decision and judging by reddit reactions nobody likes i eithert. This is a pretty abysmal announcement for people without home groups that rely on the RC to regulate the format and it will make many people take a break from edh. This goes entirely against the spirit of silver-border card and the spirit of our beloved format.


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 Post subject: Re: Making UN-cards legal and why it is the worst decision ever.
AgePosted: 2017-Nov-30 8:27 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Sep-19 1:30 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Or, you could just look for games where the other players agree on no silver bordered cards. Odds are you'll be able to get at least a few people to be willing to play with you if you ask nicely.

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 Post subject: Re: Making UN-cards legal and why it is the worst decision ever.
AgePosted: 2017-Nov-30 8:33 pm 

Joined: 2017-Nov-30 7:06 pm
Age: Hatchling
The difference, and it’s important, is that if one person says no, you get to use silverbordered cards. Instead of any one person being able to veto your deck if you have silverbordered cards, the entire playgroup would have to agree to ban them. Why seperate players like that? If people refuse to play against silver boardered cards they would have to walk away from that game which splits the community, which is terrible for the format and the game in general. I can't see how this is a good decision.


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 Post subject: Re: Making UN-cards legal and why it is the worst decision ever.
AgePosted: 2017-Nov-30 8:38 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Jul-18 9:59 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Rarian wrote:
This goes entirely against the spirit of silver-border card and the spirit of our beloved format.

This goes completely with the spirit of this beloved format. I think you misunderstand the spirit with which the format was created and the spirit the RC are trying to convey if that's your opinion.

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"- if this spell is played ten times in a given game then I suggest you warm up the tar and pluck some chickens" - tarnar

The internet's great at making noise, and poor at operating pants. There's gonna be half-dressed mobs screeching half-assed arguments for the rest of the 21st century - Kemev


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 Post subject: Re: Making UN-cards legal and why it is the worst decision ever.
AgePosted: 2017-Nov-30 8:44 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Sep-19 1:30 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Rarian wrote:
The difference, and it’s important, is that if one person says no, you get to use silverbordered cards. Instead of any one person being able to veto your deck if you have silverbordered cards, the entire playgroup would have to agree to ban them.
No. You start a game, you get three players who agree to no silver, one person can't override. Just like any other house rules, if you set up a game for those specifically, people can either join or not - one person cannot override what is going on, all they can do is refuse to play.

Quote:
Why seperate players like that? If people refuse to play against silver boardered cards they would have to walk away from that game
No. If they refuse to play without silver bordered cards they walk away from the specified no silver game and find another. The same as it was before this announcement, and after the time frame ends. The only difference is the default assumption of legality if you sit down at a table without asking.

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My Decks: Zombiepocalypse (Thraximundar) ♦ Thrun stands alone (voltron) ♦ Ashling the Burninator ♦ Doran beatdown (treefolk/plant tribal) ♦ Mine! (UB theft/clone) ♦ Vampire Beatdown (Edgar Markov) ♦ BW Enchantments (Daxos the Returned)


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 Post subject: Re: Making UN-cards legal and why it is the worst decision ever.
AgePosted: 2017-Nov-30 8:50 pm 

Joined: 2017-Nov-30 7:06 pm
Age: Hatchling
@Viperion - I don’t think it really does. It makes commander much less inclusive and shows everyone who doesn’t play it 100% casual that it’s no longer their format. I will quote the statement from reddit with which I fully agree:

Quote:
This is a clear flag that only the most casual of players are welcome in commander. I know the format was invented to be a very casual experience, but it has blossomed and grown tremendously in recent years. Everyone I know who plays magic plays commander, and many it vastly different ways. There are still super casual players that are all about giant spells and epic stories, there are the standard players that didn't want to lose their favorite decks and so transitioned them into commander archtypes, there are the competitive players running legacy singleton with fully tuned decks capable of doing insane things. And you know what? All of those players could play commander and have fun before today (though probably not at the same table).


I’ll take break from organized edh events till January and I hope that those inherently broken and nonstandard cards would be then left to the players in each group to accept or forbid but if they stick for longer it may be the end for me and, judging by replies on social media, many others. And that just makes me sad.


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 Post subject: Re: Making UN-cards legal and why it is the worst decision ever.
AgePosted: 2017-Nov-30 9:12 pm 
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Joined: 2016-Nov-27 2:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
A casual for-fun social format allows casual for-fun social cards for a month? Sounds fine to me! For many of us in the West it's also a festive period, which is great timing.

For groups where this doesn't work, our format has a social contract that enables groups to decide they don't want to play silver border.

My locale's been planning on doing some Un-Commander anyway. The players who don't want to play silver bordered can play black bordered games still between themselves.

~~~~

P.S.: Honestly I think if someone's so offended by this change they feel the format is no longer for them... they're either overreacting, or misunderstood the point of the format. This change is the format temporarily doing more of what it was always more or less about. Actually there's a third option: they're right, the format isn't for them, because it's not targeting them and their values don't align with EDH values.

If you personally don't want to play for the month, power to you to do that. I think you're missing out and I'd invite you to join us and see how it goes anyway, but it's up to you if you don't want to.

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Beloved precons: Atraxa, Praetors' Voice; Saskia the Unyielding; Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury.


Last edited by spacemonaut on 2017-Nov-30 9:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Making UN-cards legal and why it is the worst decision ever.
AgePosted: 2017-Nov-30 9:14 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Jul-18 9:59 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
And the competitive players will play the silver bordered cards competitively, and the casual players will play the silver bordered cards casually (which, by the way is the vision for the format)

And, and this is an important point that with all due respect I think you have completely backwards; adding more cards makes the game more inclusive, not less.

Added to that as a practical note; Unglued came out NINETEEN years ago. Unhinged THIRTEEN years ago. There just aren't that many cards out there. The vast majority of silver bordered cards that will get played are Unstable, and those cards were designed with modern (not Modern) sensibilities in mind.

Everything is going to be fine.

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"- if this spell is played ten times in a given game then I suggest you warm up the tar and pluck some chickens" - tarnar

The internet's great at making noise, and poor at operating pants. There's gonna be half-dressed mobs screeching half-assed arguments for the rest of the 21st century - Kemev


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 Post subject: Re: Making UN-cards legal and why it is the worst decision ever.
AgePosted: 2017-Nov-30 10:27 pm 

Joined: 2010-Mar-10 1:31 pm
Age: Dragon
Rarian wrote:
I’ve always stood by RC and I’ve never bothered to create an account in here because there was no need for that. However today’s decision of making UN-cards legal for over a month is a tasteless joke. I hate this decision and judging by reddit reaction


Thank the gods the RC doesn't make judgments based on that alone....

As for me, I've already identified the following as cards I plan to play with:

Fowl Play
B.F.M. (Big Furry Monster)
maybe Hurloon Wrangler
Lexivore
Miss Demeanor
Rock Lobster
Scissors Lizard I used to have all three but I lost the tiger :cry:

Cards I may look into ordering:
Giant Fan
Johnny, Combo Player
Spike, Tournament Grinder ( i love the artwork...now to find out if i can find a playmat with it)
Staying Power

The card i'm most worried about is naturally
Frankie Peanuts

EDIT: ouch Rare-B-Gone

EDIT II: Someone somewhere else mentioned that this feels like a way to help WotC sell Unstable and since Enter the Dungeon is on the ban list but The Countdown is at One isn't...just feels like that feeling is the right one.

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onlainari wrote:
trappedslider wrote:
EDIT: so if i somehow manged to get down to 1 life,played Repay in Kind followed by Decree of Annihilation then it owuld be bad evil juju?

That's not how magic works. You can't equate cards and situations linearly like that!


Last edited by trappedslider on 2017-Dec-01 12:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Making UN-cards legal and why it is the worst decision ever.
AgePosted: 2017-Dec-01 12:02 am 

Joined: 2012-Mar-31 11:52 am
Age: Elder Dragon
I posted my thoughts on MTGS, but I'll post here as well: I don't like this announcement because a midseason announcement to temporarily legalize cards is contrary to their stance since rofellos that they dont do temporary bans/unbans. So for me this just feels like a way to help Wizards sell product. I couldn't care less about uncards being legal, I just feel like they should have gone about this the way they normally do: announce it when they do their usual updates and make it a permanent thing unless time proves it to be a mistake.


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 Post subject: Re: Making UN-cards legal and why it is the worst decision ever.
AgePosted: 2017-Dec-01 12:27 am 

Joined: 2015-Apr-23 11:27 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Antwerp, Belgium
We've always allowed silver bordered cards, as long as they're not too 'un'. I mean, AWOL is fine, so is Flock of Rabid Sheep, but that big furry monster thing isn't. I'm not sure where exactly we draw the line, but if a card is fun and could have been a normal card, nobody minds. I'm pretty sure Crow Storm and that Squirrel Earl are gonna see play around here anyway, with or wthout rule change.

I can't really sympathize with people complaining about this rule change ruining competitive gameplay. The game just isn't intended to be competitive, you can play it that way, sure, but you can't complain if it doesn't work out for you. Worst case scenario, you have a couple of 'bad' games next month. Suck it up, take some time to visit your relatives, and learn to play the violin.


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 Post subject: Re: Making UN-cards legal and why it is the worst decision ever.
AgePosted: 2017-Dec-01 12:30 am 

Joined: 2008-Aug-08 6:34 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Rouen, France
cryogen wrote:
I don't like this announcement because a midseason announcement to temporarily legalize cards is contrary to their stance since rofellos that they dont do temporary bans/unbans.


When there's just one never-ending season, it's always mid-season.

I get the temporary bit but I'd say if you took all the "I just wish Unstable was legal in Commander!" traffic before the announcement and all the "Terrible decision!" traffic from after, you'd find that there's a lot more people want this than don't.

Me, I'm just happy I get to play Temp of the Damned, Deadhead & Over My Dead Bodies for a while.

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 Post subject: Re: Making UN-cards legal and why it is the worst decision ever.
AgePosted: 2017-Dec-01 12:47 am 

Joined: 2010-Mar-10 1:31 pm
Age: Dragon
Nigerian Prince wrote:
We've always allowed silver bordered cards, as long as they're not too 'un'. I mean, AWOL is fine, so is Flock of Rabid Sheep, but that big furry monster thing isn't.


But BFM is :
15 black

You must play both B.F.M. cards to put B.F.M. into play. If either B.F.M. card leaves play, sacrifice the other. B.F.M. can be blocked only by three or more creatures.

99/99

with some of my favorite flavor text : "It was big. Really, really big. No, bigger than that. Even bigger. Keep going. More. No, more. Look, we're talking krakens and dreadnoughts for jewelry. It was big"

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onlainari wrote:
trappedslider wrote:
EDIT: so if i somehow manged to get down to 1 life,played Repay in Kind followed by Decree of Annihilation then it owuld be bad evil juju?

That's not how magic works. You can't equate cards and situations linearly like that!


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 Post subject: Re: Making UN-cards legal and why it is the worst decision ever.
AgePosted: 2017-Dec-01 1:11 am 

Joined: 2012-Mar-31 11:52 am
Age: Elder Dragon
zimagic wrote:
cryogen wrote:
I don't like this announcement because a midseason announcement to temporarily legalize cards is contrary to their stance since rofellos that they dont do temporary bans/unbans.


When there's just one never-ending season, it's always mid-season.

I get the temporary bit but I'd say if you took all the "I just wish Unstable was legal in Commander!" traffic before the announcement and all the "Terrible decision!" traffic from after, you'd find that there's a lot more people want this than don't.

Me, I'm just happy I get to play Temp of the Damned, Deadhead & Over My Dead Bodies for a while.

Yeah, I know there are people excited for this. I'm already looking to adding some stuff to my cube, and I can imagine the shenanigans that could happen in leagues. Like I said, I don't have any issue at all with the "we're going to legalize Uncards" part. My problem is that by doing this not during a routine ban list announcement and for a temporary period, the Rules Committee is contradicting themselves on previously being white adamant to NOT DOING THOSE THINGS. And it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.


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 Post subject: Re: Making UN-cards legal and why it is the worst decision ever.
AgePosted: 2017-Dec-01 1:33 am 

Joined: 2017-Dec-01 1:06 am
Age: Wyvern
Rarian wrote:
I’ll take break from organized edh events till January and I hope that those inherently broken and nonstandard cards would be then left to the players in each group to accept or forbid but if they stick for longer it may be the end for me and, judging by replies on social media, many others. And that just makes me sad.


@Rarian I was with you 100% up until this point. Like you my initial reaction to this rule change was "You're F#kn kidding me?" but we can't just disappear for a month or else it really will damage the playgroups. Just embrace the chaos and hope to hell nobody gets off a Red-Hot Hottie on a table near you.

Man I feel old today....

Stay strong brother! xD


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