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MTG Commander/Elder Dragon Highlander • View topic - Edh is dead - fix your banlist or make a secondary one

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 Post subject: Re: Edh is dead - fix your banlist or make a secondary one
AgePosted: 2018-Mar-01 9:30 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Edh is dead - fix your banlist or make a secondary one
AgePosted: 2018-Mar-02 2:00 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Edh is dead - fix your banlist or make a secondary one
AgePosted: 2018-Mar-02 2:36 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Edh is dead - fix your banlist or make a secondary one
AgePosted: 2018-Mar-02 3:37 am 

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 Post subject: Re: Edh is dead - fix your banlist or make a secondary one
AgePosted: 2018-Mar-02 6:54 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Edh is dead - fix your banlist or make a secondary one
AgePosted: 2018-Mar-02 9:05 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Edh is dead - fix your banlist or make a secondary one
AgePosted: 2018-Mar-02 6:12 pm 

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 Post subject: Re: Edh is dead - fix your banlist or make a secondary one
AgePosted: 2018-Mar-02 6:57 pm 

Joined: 2015-Dec-22 4:41 am
Age: Drake
I think creating balanced and interactive gameplay would not only take discouraging of degenerate strategies but also the inculcation of effective strategic thinking. The latter seems to boil down to "Git gud!" but the former will take a combination of principle and incentive. For example, I just built a Tazri deck. It has some infinite combos, but the catch is that it's only $50. I can't afford to use the best cards and the best strategy on that budget, but I built it to win (it hasn't won a single game yet). Principle keeps me from exceeding $50, and with that limit serving as a sufficient obstacle, I can remain win-oriented and make victory my incentive.

The question is, what document can the RC write and endorse that creates incentive to build decks that lead to fun and interactive gameplay without actually limiting the card pool? I mentioned the use of a side-quest-style point system (with rewards and penalties) earlier. Does anyone on the RC use a specific and refined system that they could recommend to veteran players?

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 Post subject: Re: Edh is dead - fix your banlist or make a secondary one
AgePosted: 2018-Mar-03 3:40 am 
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I honestly think that the best thing the RC could do to try to do that is to keep on doing what Sheldon's been doing: posting their own decks and games and talking about them. Seeing what cards/strategies the format visionaries actually use and hearing why they choose them over the alternatives is about as good as you could get.

That being said, if they were to draw up a document, here are some things I'd consider putting on it:

1. Try to limit yourself from cards/strategies that actively prevent your opponents from being able to play the game, especially those that target a single player. Taking the example of discard: and are fine, and should be used with caution, and and are where it gets to be not fun. Categorically speaking, the offenders tend to be excessive discard, mana denial, excessive removal, excessive anti-removal, and extra-turn effects.

2. Proceed with caution around cards that have some sort of repeatable value effect. The worst (legal) offender in this category IMO is , and other examples include cards like , , , and . Too often turns and even games can just devolve into maximizing the use of the ability rather than actually doing anything interactive or interesting, and cards like these tend to create the 10-minute turns that everyone despises. The exception to this rule is cards whose repeatable effect is something interesting and interactive, such as

3. In terms of cost vs effect, I say always lean in the direction of the better effect. or > for example. On a similar note, if the choice is between mana cost and other cost, see if the deck can make up for the other cost. For example, in certain decks > .

4. Play as many cards as you can that test your skills as a player instead of your skills at manipulating the luck of deckbuilding. The best comparison I can make is vs . Not that I won't play Dynamo or that it's a bad card, but when I'm on the cutting room floor it will always go first because Archive gives me the option of playing it multiple ways and possibly making a brilliant play or a stupid one. Its sacrifice effect also gives it the opportunity to interact with more of my own board.

5. Play cards that affect the whole table over ones that affect you alone. The simplest comparison I could make is > .

6. Don't put all your eggs in one basket. I generally don't like to build decks that don't have at a backup strategy if the major one fails, and I never like to rely on a single card or subset of cards to do it.


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 Post subject: Re: Edh is dead - fix your banlist or make a secondary one
AgePosted: 2018-Mar-04 3:12 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Edh is dead - fix your banlist or make a secondary one
AgePosted: 2018-Mar-04 5:14 am 

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 Post subject: Re: Edh is dead - fix your banlist or make a secondary one
AgePosted: 2018-Mar-04 6:09 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Edh is dead - fix your banlist or make a secondary one
AgePosted: 2018-Mar-04 3:50 pm 

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 Post subject: Re: Edh is dead - fix your banlist or make a secondary one
AgePosted: 2018-Mar-04 6:39 pm 

Joined: 2015-Dec-22 4:41 am
Age: Drake
Ultimately, I'm a bit afraid that fighting for a principle alone without providing an incentive to follow it will probably fail. If a format isn't fun, simply making "Have fun!" a rule won't fix it.

If this is happening at an LGS, maybe you could talk to the store manager about it, especially if we're talking about a paid routine event. If they want to incentivize newer customers to buy commander products and play at their commander events, they need to not just support the principle of the format philosophy but also provide an incentive to follow that principle. That incentive usually takes the form of a custom win condition for a series of games/pods as it does at my own LGS. In paid events, they can award prizes both for winning individual games (the normal way) and winning the event (the custom way).

When I get the chance, I'll post an example of what my LGS does. It's not full proof, but it's a start.

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 Post subject: Re: Edh is dead - fix your banlist or make a secondary one
AgePosted: 2018-Mar-05 9:28 am 
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