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 Post subject: Re: We need to talk about Godo and/or Helm of the Host
AgePosted: 2018-May-16 2:35 am 

Joined: 2009-Apr-21 3:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Palm Springs Area, CA
My mono red deck is a lot like my mono blue when it comes to mana production.

It almost always makes a ton, but in a very fragile way.

Caged Sun, Gauntlet of Power/Might, Extraplanar Lens, and the best mana rocks mean I'm alway making loads of mana.

Do I expect Godo to be played with this combo? Yes. Do I expect it will take over and deserve a ban? No. Because its relatively boring and going to be completely obvious when its coming if Godo is in the command zone. If this is your plan to victory I would expect people to opt out of games with you after a point.

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 Post subject: Re: We need to talk about Godo and/or Helm of the Host
AgePosted: 2018-May-16 3:03 am 
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Joined: 2006-Dec-31 12:26 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
majikal wrote:
I didn't ask a question, though.

If you're going to be acting petulantly once the conversation has cycled back to people saying the same things again -- then I feel you should be alerted that you did actually ask a question. So, going around acting all holier-than-thou & snarky while being incorrect seems.... foolish.


Your question was a single word: "Thoughts?" -- but there's a distinct question mark at the end of it indicating that it was a question.

Also - if it seems that most everyone here seems to be against you on this... perhaps you should take a look at the situation more. Either you're wrong... or you can just sit back, watch it become a problem, and then can smugly state that you tried to warn people.


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 Post subject: Re: We need to talk about Godo and/or Helm of the Host
AgePosted: 2018-May-16 5:10 am 

Joined: 2012-Mar-31 11:52 am
Age: Elder Dragon
He at least deserves credit for 'poor little sausage'. I hadn't heard that expression before.


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 Post subject: Re: We need to talk about Godo and/or Helm of the Host
AgePosted: 2018-May-16 5:36 am 
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Joined: 2017-Mar-11 6:43 am
Age: Dragon
cryogen wrote:
He at least deserves credit for 'poor little sausage'. I hadn't heard that expression before.


:lol: Stop, my ribs casing can't take anymore

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 Post subject: Re: We need to talk about Godo and/or Helm of the Host
AgePosted: 2018-May-16 8:24 am 
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Joined: 2006-May-18 5:21 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
OK, people need to calm down. And calling someone a poor little sausage is definitely out of line and needs to stop. Spoiler: doing stuff like that makes it much harder for us to take you seriously.

The Helm/Godo interaction is the kind of thing that theoretically could be an issue. We haven't had a Commander who is capable of tutoring out their companion combo card before. I think we'd likely ban a Commander with "Kicker 5: win the game" and, while this is not that, it's parallel enough to justify keeping an eye on.

However, theory here isn't enough. We'd want to see that this is happening in practice, and it isn't just getting stomped all over because it's a heavily-telegraphed commander with a lot of easy answers, or being widely eschewed as not all that good/interesting. So it's not a problem, but it has potential.


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 Post subject: Re: We need to talk about Godo and/or Helm of the Host
AgePosted: 2018-Oct-23 11:28 pm 

Joined: 2008-Aug-08 6:34 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Rouen, France
Mr Degradation wrote:
What the combo ACTUALLY does, is allows [snip] Aurelia, the Warleader the ability to do something at a point in the game where 11 mana is available


Sorry for draging this back up but when the Helm i attached to Aurelia, is there 1 or 2 additional attack steps?

I'm thinking 2 (1 each). Correct?

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 Post subject: Re: We need to talk about Godo and/or Helm of the Host
AgePosted: 2018-Oct-24 12:40 am 
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Joined: 2006-Dec-31 12:26 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
zimagic wrote:
Mr Degradation wrote:
What the combo ACTUALLY does, is allows [snip] Aurelia, the Warleader the ability to do something at a point in the game where 11 mana is available


Sorry for draging this back up but when the Helm i attached to Aurelia, is there 1 or 2 additional attack steps?

I'm thinking 2 (1 each). Correct?

Assuming you attack with both copies, yes there are 2 additional attack steps.

Of course, then you go into another combat, get another token, and (if you attack with that token) then you get yet another attack step... etc.


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 Post subject: Re: We need to talk about Godo and/or Helm of the Host
AgePosted: 2018-Oct-24 1:26 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Feb-07 3:37 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Danbury, CT
...Was there really a 4-page thread about a combo that dies to Rakdos Keyrune?

Rad.

papa_funk wrote:
We haven't had a Commander who is capable of tutoring out their companion combo card before.


This got me thinking real hard about Kaho, Minamo Historian. I think there's a deck to be built where you use Long-Term plans to assemble your infinite mana engine, and once you have infinite mana, use a Twitch type card to draw your deck.

I can't figure out a way to make it all happen in one turn though without some supporting cards.

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 Post subject: Re: We need to talk about Godo and/or Helm of the Host
AgePosted: 2018-Oct-24 5:43 pm 

Joined: 2008-Aug-08 6:34 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Rouen, France
Carthain wrote:
zimagic wrote:
Mr Degradation wrote:
What the combo ACTUALLY does, is allows [snip] Aurelia, the Warleader the ability to do something at a point in the game where 11 mana is available


Sorry for draging this back up but when the Helm i attached to Aurelia, is there 1 or 2 additional attack steps?

I'm thinking 2 (1 each). Correct?

Assuming you attack with both copies, yes there are 2 additional attack steps.

Of course, then you go into another combat, get another token, and (if you attack with that token) then you get yet another attack step... etc.


Thanks Carthian!

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 Post subject: Re: We need to talk about Godo and/or Helm of the Host
AgePosted: 2018-Oct-25 3:59 am 

Joined: 2017-Dec-23 4:51 am
Age: Wyvern
Well, I think that Godo isn't the problem.

Helmet of the Host is a crazily broken card for EDH. You guys are talking about a combo with Godo, but any Equipment-based deck can abuse it easily.

"But it costs 5 to equip!"

Ok, but let's talk about Boros decks? Boros decks have Sigarda's Aid, Stonehewer Giant, Stoneforge Mystic to make this come true. Aurelia can easily make end the game as soon as it enters the battlefield using this card - and it flies.

In the other hand, combos based on attacking can easily be disrupted by StoP, Path, Soul Nova, Settle the Wreckage, Strip Bare, Wing Shards, or anything that makes the creature or the equipment get back to it's owner's hand.

Is it worth the ban? I haven't seen it being abused more hardly than Sword of Feast and Famine + Aggravated Assault up to now.


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 Post subject: Re: We need to talk about Godo and/or Helm of the Host
AgePosted: 2018-Oct-25 7:40 am 

Joined: 2012-Oct-24 8:05 pm
Age: Drake
Kemev wrote:
...Was there really a 4-page thread about a combo that dies to Rakdos Keyrune?

Not really... as mentioned, you still get to kill any player who can't block an infinite stream of 3/3s and all the copies of Godo that don't die in the process will be untapped and able to attack one more time. Also, you get to put every equipment from your deck onto the battlefield. If you have Hammer of Nazahn and, let's say, Sword of Vengeance in your deck, you now have infinite attacks with a 7/3 flying, trample, indestructible commander. If that isn't good enough, add Whispersilk Cloak. So it can be stopped by instant-speed removal, but not by blockers.


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 Post subject: Re: We need to talk about Godo and/or Helm of the Host
AgePosted: 2018-Oct-25 11:42 am 

Joined: 2012-Mar-31 11:52 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Kemev wrote:
...Was there really a 4-page thread about a combo that dies to Rakdos Keyrune?

Rad.

papa_funk wrote:
We haven't had a Commander who is capable of tutoring out their companion combo card before.


This got me thinking real hard about Kaho, Minamo Historian. I think there's a deck to be built where you use Long-Term plans to assemble your infinite mana engine, and once you have infinite mana, use a Twitch type card to draw your deck.

I can't figure out a way to make it all happen in one turn though without some supporting cards.

That's why the card is OP and needs to be banned. No one runs Rakdos Keyrune so the combo is free to terrorize tables without interruption.


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 Post subject: Re: We need to talk about Godo and/or Helm of the Host
AgePosted: 2018-Oct-26 2:09 am 
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Joined: 2012-Sep-16 3:17 am
Age: Elder Dragon
There are over 150 creatures with power 3+ and first strike/doublestrike. 43 of them that can be Commanders. A lot of these cards (Baneslayer Angel, Ramiez DePrieto) are considered EDH staples and are likely to be in a deck (not to mention cards that give those abilities or are the said keyrune).

Plus there are tons (you can literally count them by the 2,000s) of ways to stop this combo from going off from removal, fogs, theft, etc. where even if it delays it 2 turns, gets you a lot of ire from the other table players.

I don't see this as anything worse than Arcum, Zur, Sliver Queen, etc.

I think the linchpin for me is that it has to happen in the combat phase and can't be executed at instant speed like a good amount of other combos. Because of that, I see a lot of opportunity for disruption from other players. If we've learned how to deal with the other search engine Commanders I don't see this being an issue either.

BTW I am now going to call everyone a little sausage.


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 Post subject: Re: We need to talk about Godo and/or Helm of the Host
AgePosted: 2018-Oct-26 2:16 am 

Joined: 2008-Jun-29 8:18 am
Age: Drake
mmm sausage


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 Post subject: Re: We need to talk about Godo and/or Helm of the Host
AgePosted: 2018-Oct-26 3:41 am 
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Joined: 2011-Jan-16 5:36 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Toronto, ON
These are some very good arguments for the unbanning of at least Biorhythm, if not Coalition Victory as well.

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