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MTG Commander/Elder Dragon Highlander • View topic - Ad Nauseam, Paradox Engine and Food Chain : Problem

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 Post subject: Ad Nauseam, Paradox Engine and Food Chain : Problem
AgePosted: 2018-Nov-04 3:27 am 

Joined: 2018-Nov-04 3:06 am
Age: Hatchling
Hi, dudes! :D

I'll show my opinion about this cards: Ad Nauseam, Paradox Engine and Food Chain.

Firstly, "houserules" only works in specific playgroups - as close friends, for example. But I enjoy playing in several lgs with different people, using my decks, its funny to see different people with different strategies :) .

BUT the tree cards that I mentioned in the subject are linear and awful combo enablers, I see, that "optmized tier 0 commanders" only works due that cards. I know about responses, but is nearly impossible try to response multiple opponents that are trying to combo every single turn, sometimes.
:shock:

I know that majority casual-fun players dont use that cards... therefore I think: -Why not ban those cards? :|

Let see if monoblack sidisi and Zur are powerful without ad nauseam, or tazri is playable outside tribal allies without food chain (Proosh, will be a big aggro yay)... and paradox engine, dirty, dirty card that enables unstoppable storms and is a good ad nauseam partner (man, I saw 5 mana ad nauseam win in first TURN! using ritual and mana cript) :cry: .

What do you think guys? Playing in different places is funny. But some cards are dirty and easy enablers to combos, I think it is a time to fight back :wink: .

I dont hate combos, but they need to be well worked and risky as animate dead + worldgorger dragon xD. I love that things :P .


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 Post subject: Re: Ad Nauseam, Paradox Engine and Food Chain : Problem
AgePosted: 2018-Nov-04 9:50 am 
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Joined: 2012-Dec-03 3:16 am
Age: Elder Dragon
First, welcome to the forums!

Second, the good thing about fast combo is you are not sitting there for 20 turns waiting to die it is over. Now most will say, "Just play for second place." This has the benefit of the combo player got to do his thing, but then he has to sit around for the next 45 minutes while everybody else plays a more traditional EDH game.

Most do not want to play a game that takes less time than it did to shuffle, but the Rules Committee are not trying to balance the format for tournament play. If they did it would be a very different thing. This is why and etc. are still legal.

Personally, I am of the opposite opinion. I think they need to unban and . If you can make 8 mana and meet the other criteria I think you should win. I mean, if I can do this on turn 1, then let me do it... then ignore me for the next 3 hours while you play for second place. These types of games tend to not really interact with anybody anyways so it is not like I dropped on turn 5 without any way to end the game.

You are not playing for a prize so let people play what they have. If someone has Power 9, let them play it. I have found that most of the time a would really just mean they skip t1 and are now on t2... unless they are looping it isn't that different than . I mean what is 3 mana when you already have making infinite blue mana?

In short, you didn't provide any new information so I seriously doubt anything new will come of this. People come complain about card X all the time. Does that affect the RC's decisions? Maybe a little, but since again they are not balancing for tournament play, they are more likely to ban the next rather than the next simply because Titan doesn't actively end the game, he just makes it harder for people to play. When plays the player just won in the least original way possible. But the game is over.


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 Post subject: Re: Ad Nauseam, Paradox Engine and Food Chain : Problem
AgePosted: 2018-Nov-06 1:51 pm 

Joined: 2014-Jul-26 11:35 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Before I go to deep on an answer I will ask two questions:
First - How frequently are you seeing these cards in play? I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen Ad Nausium.
Second - Do you cut your opponents' deck at the start? I understand there is room for hyperbole to make a point, but if your opponents are playing a 5 mana card on turn 1 or 2, and doing so repeatedly then they are probably cheating.

I built and played a razor edge Ad Nauseum Combo deck for a competitive commander night some time ago and getting that thing to work was not easy. Don't get me wrong, it's still a broken as hell deck, but the turn 1 combo kill just isn't a thing that happens with any consistency in my experience.

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 Post subject: Re: Ad Nauseam, Paradox Engine and Food Chain : Problem
AgePosted: 2018-Nov-07 12:20 am 

Joined: 2018-Nov-04 3:06 am
Age: Hatchling


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 Post subject: Re: Ad Nauseam, Paradox Engine and Food Chain : Problem
AgePosted: 2018-Nov-08 1:58 pm 

Joined: 2014-Jul-26 11:35 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Well you didn't really answer either of my questions, but I think I have a bit of an idea of how to move forward.

1/3 seems excessive, that suggests that in every 4 player game, one person is using those cards to combo. So I suspect there is a little bit of confirmation bias happening. You remember the feel bads of getting hit by the combo more clearly than the other games, so it feels like it is more frequent than it is.

In any case, you also haven't mentioned how often this is actually happening before T4, because as I mentioned above, putting together a combo like that before turn 4 is pretty difficult, even in a deck specifically designed to do it.

Solutions: Play cheap interaction. Your white decks should have a cheap disenchant effect, anguished unmaking, naturalise, unravel the aether, counterspell, the shatter with overload I cant remember the name of. If you exile paradox engine the turn it is played then very often their deck stops working, then they get to sit and watch you play for the rest of the time.

Combo decks are either incredibly fragile, fast, powerful but easier to distrupt or they are good, resilient, hard to disrupt, but take a lot longer to set up.

One more question, how do the players you play with do mulligans? If people are still playing with partial-paris then you will find a lot more combo decks.

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 Post subject: Re: Ad Nauseam, Paradox Engine and Food Chain : Problem
AgePosted: 2018-Nov-10 11:52 am 

Joined: 2018-Oct-01 11:59 am
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 Post subject: Re: Ad Nauseam, Paradox Engine and Food Chain : Problem
AgePosted: 2018-Nov-11 10:18 am 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
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Location: New Hampshire

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 Post subject: Re: Ad Nauseam, Paradox Engine and Food Chain : Problem
AgePosted: 2018-Nov-11 1:34 pm 

Joined: 2014-Jul-26 11:35 am
Age: Elder Dragon
I had thought that one of the most significant downsides to the partial paris was the ability to more easily sculpt a combo-rific hand by not having to ditch your combo piece if you don't like the rest of your hand.

This could just have been me though.

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 Post subject: Re: Ad Nauseam, Paradox Engine and Food Chain : Problem
AgePosted: 2018-Nov-12 1:34 am 

Joined: 2008-Jan-25 8:26 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Calgary

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 Post subject: Re: Ad Nauseam, Paradox Engine and Food Chain : Problem
AgePosted: 2018-Nov-13 7:03 pm 

Joined: 2018-Oct-01 11:59 am
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 Post subject: Re: Ad Nauseam, Paradox Engine and Food Chain : Problem
AgePosted: 2018-Nov-14 8:52 am 

Joined: 2014-Jul-26 11:35 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Are you disagreeing with the statement that partial paris mulligans makes combo decks better/easier to play?

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 Post subject: Re: Ad Nauseam, Paradox Engine and Food Chain : Problem
AgePosted: 2018-Nov-14 10:28 am 

Joined: 2018-Oct-01 11:59 am
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 Post subject: Re: Ad Nauseam, Paradox Engine and Food Chain : Problem
AgePosted: 2018-Nov-14 10:50 am 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
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 Post subject: Re: Ad Nauseam, Paradox Engine and Food Chain : Problem
AgePosted: 2018-Nov-14 11:00 am 

Joined: 2014-Jul-26 11:35 am
Age: Elder Dragon
That was my intention, although having thought about it a bit more you could argue that PP also makes finding answers easier as well so I'm not sure how important the mulligans are anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: Ad Nauseam, Paradox Engine and Food Chain : Problem
AgePosted: 2018-Nov-14 11:27 am 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
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Location: New Hampshire

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