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 Post subject: Re: Ravnica Allegiance
AgePosted: 2018-Dec-19 9:35 am 
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Joined: 2013-Oct-26 9:21 am
Age: Dragon
Location: Xenia, OH, USA
OldVig wrote:
Imperious oligarch as a 2/1 vigilant that replaces itself with a 1/1 flyer seems ok for pauper, not sure if it's an edh card.
Compare to putrid warrior (2/2 suck a life or grant a life) and tithe drinker (2/1 lifelink extort).

I suggest tithe drinker > imperious oligarch > putrid warrior


My Teysa, Orzhov Scion wants all the afterlife cards, especially the multi color ones... VALUE TOWN.. Sac 3 BW creatures with Afterlife 1, get 3 BW Spirits and 3 W Spirits, then Sac the BW ones for 3 more W Spirits, then sac those 6 and that's 4 exiles off three creatures... CHOO CHOO VALUE TRAIN


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 Post subject: Re: Ravnica Allegiance
AgePosted: 2018-Dec-19 11:35 am 

Joined: 2011-Jan-03 4:23 pm
Age: Drake
Interestingly, Rosewater has noted that originally, Simic's mechanic was going to be proliferate. He'll explain why it posed problems in one of his preview articles.

Someone on the Discord thought it might be planeswalkers, but given that we had both proliferate and planeswalkers (including ones with emblems--see Venser) in the Scars of Mirrodin sets, I'm not sure that's it. Maybe it was a difference between a -1/-1 environment and a +1/+1 environment, at least in Limited?

Meanwhile, we got an additional Rakdos card:

Image

And I might as well mark it now: I'm predicting detain and provoke for the Azorius and Gruul mechanics.


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 Post subject: Re: Ravnica Allegiance
AgePosted: 2018-Dec-19 8:31 pm 
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Joined: 2016-Nov-27 2:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Coco wrote:
spacemonaut wrote:
There's an elf lady that's appeared on the Ravnica Alliegance packaging carrying the trident Zegana held in Prime Speaker Zegana. My thinking she's the Simic leader, and I'm willing to bet she's also a Bant planeswalker.


I can't see any reason for her to be Bant. It doesn't make sense for only one of the guild leaders to have a color outside the guild, and it would probably anger Simic players who want a goodie for their guild in the mythic slot, with very little benefit. I am not sure who is looking for another Bant walker when there are several wedges and shards with no walker yet.

Fair point there that players would be unhappy. I thought she might be bant since she's prominently wearing a lot of white — but Simic can wear white too.

Inkeyes22 wrote:
I think it would be cool, but we already have 2. Tamiyo, Field Researcher is pretty awesome, and like Coco says they have done stuff like that in the past (never in Ravnica of course) and upset a fair amount of people.

I agree, and I realise she probably won't be a planeswalker after all. We know there's going to be 5 guilds lead in some way by a planeswalker and 5 that are not not, and we probably already know which is which: Izzet, Golgari, Domri, Azorius*, and Orzhov.

Orzhov gets lead by Kaya after she deals with the ghost council somehow (what with being able to assassinate them at all). Wizards let slip in an Arena promo screenshot that Dovin Baan would make an appearance, so he's probably the new Azorius leader.

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Beloved precons: Atraxa, Praetors' Voice; Saskia the Unyielding; Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury.


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 Post subject: Re: Ravnica Allegiance
AgePosted: 2018-Dec-20 1:22 am 
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Joined: 2012-Dec-03 3:16 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Skyknight wrote:
And I might as well mark it now: I'm predicting detain and provoke for the Azorius and Gruul mechanics.


While Detain isn't the worst mechanic ever, I would be pretty upset. Convoke coming back was fine, it is powerful and works with all the tokens. Provoke is pretty good too, so I would be okay with that, but Detain is just garbage in comparison.

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Shabbaman wrote:
The usual answer is "the social contract", but I guess that is not what you are looking for. Try house rules.


With perfect mana, reasonable removal, disruption, and card advantage, we're back to pitchforks and torches. And it's about to get worse for those who do not enjoy the game as Richard Garfield intended, playing as few win conditions as possible and prompting concession after all hopes (and spells) are lost. - Shaheen Soorani


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 Post subject: Re: Ravnica Allegiance
AgePosted: 2018-Dec-20 2:18 am 
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Joined: 2016-Nov-27 2:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
I'm looking forward to the Gruul-flavored Colossal Dreadmaw. 8)

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Decks: Chaos colored dragons, Mathas, the Instigator (politics and mayhem).
Beloved precons: Atraxa, Praetors' Voice; Saskia the Unyielding; Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury.


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 Post subject: Re: Ravnica Allegiance
AgePosted: 2018-Dec-20 2:24 am 

Joined: 2011-Jan-03 4:23 pm
Age: Drake
Bah, so much for provoke. The Gruul get a new keyword, riot. Basically, when the creature enters the battlefield, you get your pick of giving it haste or a +1/+1 counter. Now to see what mono-green rioters are like, and if anything mono-green in Simic can conduct abilities along +1/+1 counters.

Image
Image


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 Post subject: Re: Ravnica Allegiance
AgePosted: 2018-Dec-20 2:26 am 
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Joined: 2012-Dec-03 3:16 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Image so Riot is a thing now.

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Shabbaman wrote:
The usual answer is "the social contract", but I guess that is not what you are looking for. Try house rules.


With perfect mana, reasonable removal, disruption, and card advantage, we're back to pitchforks and torches. And it's about to get worse for those who do not enjoy the game as Richard Garfield intended, playing as few win conditions as possible and prompting concession after all hopes (and spells) are lost. - Shaheen Soorani


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 Post subject: Re: Ravnica Allegiance
AgePosted: 2018-Dec-20 5:34 am 

Joined: 2010-Dec-14 4:04 pm
Age: Dragon
Location: Boston, MA
Inkeyes22 wrote:
Skyknight wrote:
And I might as well mark it now: I'm predicting detain and provoke for the Azorius and Gruul mechanics.


While Detain isn't the worst mechanic ever, I would be pretty upset. Convoke coming back was fine, it is powerful and works with all the tokens. Provoke is pretty good too, so I would be okay with that, but Detain is just garbage in comparison.


In what way? Provoke was a band-aid created to add removal in a set that was all creatures, and has a significant upgrade in the fight mechanic. I mean if you look at the storm scale, Detain is 3 and Provoke is 7. I mean Convoke is still a better mechanic than either of them, but I really wouldn't expect or want to see Provoke in a modern-era set. (Although

_________________
Sygg, River Cutthroat: Ninjas, Rogues, Ophidians
Rosheen Meanderer: Hydras
Sapling of Colfenor: Toughness > Power
Riku: Pump Spells
Teneb: Life Manipulation
Kiki-Jiki: Big Red
Geth: Nim
Kodama of the North Tree: Hard Mode Voltron
Nin: Elementals
Sram: Jankstorm
Zur: Zombies
Rhys the Redeemed: Aura Voltron
Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh: Chandras
Ojutai, Soul of Winter: Tap Out Control
Alesha: Allies
Inalla: Treasures
Vial Smasher: Lava Axes
Atraxa: Counterless Keywords
Ludevic and Tymna: Curses


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 Post subject: Re: Ravnica Allegiance
AgePosted: 2018-Dec-20 5:44 am 
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Joined: 2012-Dec-03 3:16 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Coco wrote:
Inkeyes22 wrote:
Skyknight wrote:
And I might as well mark it now: I'm predicting detain and provoke for the Azorius and Gruul mechanics.


While Detain isn't the worst mechanic ever, I would be pretty upset. Convoke coming back was fine, it is powerful and works with all the tokens. Provoke is pretty good too, so I would be okay with that, but Detain is just garbage in comparison.


In what way? Provoke was a band-aid created to add removal in a set that was all creatures, and has a significant upgrade in the fight mechanic. I mean if you look at the storm scale, Detain is 3 and Provoke is 7. I mean Convoke is still a better mechanic than either of them, but I really wouldn't expect or want to see Provoke in a modern-era set. (Although


I am very curious what the rest of that sentance was...

Detain did see some play in Standard, but in EDH how many cards with it see play? Lavinia of the Tenth does see some play with flicker, but not really fun to play with or against in my opinion. To be fair there is only 11 spells with Detain total, but it really feels like a limited mechanic. It doesn't really have much design space, I mean they can always throw it on different sized bodies, but how interesting is that?

I am all for them bringing things that were popular back, and I can see Provoke not being super popular, but it at least can used to remove a threat/blocker permanently from the board. Maybe that is my biggest issue with it in EDH, Detain is a tempo play and generally in EDH tempo plays aren't worth it unless you are winning this turn (or next).

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Shabbaman wrote:
The usual answer is "the social contract", but I guess that is not what you are looking for. Try house rules.


With perfect mana, reasonable removal, disruption, and card advantage, we're back to pitchforks and torches. And it's about to get worse for those who do not enjoy the game as Richard Garfield intended, playing as few win conditions as possible and prompting concession after all hopes (and spells) are lost. - Shaheen Soorani


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 Post subject: Re: Ravnica Allegiance
AgePosted: 2018-Dec-20 6:36 am 

Joined: 2011-Jan-03 4:23 pm
Age: Drake
Main thing I like about provoke is that it lets one mess around with who's blocking whom--Invasion Plans lite, basically. You're not really content with letting your opponent do all the blocker assignment, are you?


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 Post subject: Re: Ravnica Allegiance
AgePosted: 2018-Dec-20 7:28 am 

Joined: 2010-Dec-14 4:04 pm
Age: Dragon
Location: Boston, MA
Haha the rest of the sentence was going to be (Although it would be funny to see a creature with Convoke, Provoke).

Provoke is basically a worse version of "when this attacks, fight target creature." Which is something they don't print at common anymore, because repeatable kill can be overwhelming even if it has res The whole untapping part is awkward because it doesn't work on creatures with tap abilities... a hypothetical provoke bear can't ever kill a Llanowar elves.

As far as detain, I have seen people play Lavinia, Martial Law, and Archon of the Triumvirate (granted it was Archon tribal but...). I don't think I have ever seen a card with provoke played, even in a wonky tribal beasts build.

To be honest, this trip to Ravnica feels like all the guilds got Limited mechanics (the Rakdos one might be the exception, we'll see).

_________________
Sygg, River Cutthroat: Ninjas, Rogues, Ophidians
Rosheen Meanderer: Hydras
Sapling of Colfenor: Toughness > Power
Riku: Pump Spells
Teneb: Life Manipulation
Kiki-Jiki: Big Red
Geth: Nim
Kodama of the North Tree: Hard Mode Voltron
Nin: Elementals
Sram: Jankstorm
Zur: Zombies
Rhys the Redeemed: Aura Voltron
Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh: Chandras
Ojutai, Soul of Winter: Tap Out Control
Alesha: Allies
Inalla: Treasures
Vial Smasher: Lava Axes
Atraxa: Counterless Keywords
Ludevic and Tymna: Curses


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 Post subject: Re: Ravnica Allegiance
AgePosted: 2018-Dec-20 9:11 am 

Joined: 2011-Jan-03 4:23 pm
Age: Drake
It probably doesn’t help that Legions only had two truly interesting provokers, Brontotherium for its trample, and Swooping Talon for its capability to distract anything and (usually) live for an encore.


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 Post subject: Re: Ravnica Allegiance
AgePosted: 2018-Dec-20 9:32 am 
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Joined: 2012-Dec-03 3:16 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Skyknight wrote:
It probably doesn’t help that Legions only had two truly interesting provokers, Brontotherium for its trample, and Swooping Talon for its capability to distract anything and (usually) live for an encore.


For some reason, I thought there were more creatures with Provoke, (9 or 10 depending on if you count Greater Morphling). I remember playing Deftblade Elite and have even played him in pauper a little bit.

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Shabbaman wrote:
The usual answer is "the social contract", but I guess that is not what you are looking for. Try house rules.


With perfect mana, reasonable removal, disruption, and card advantage, we're back to pitchforks and torches. And it's about to get worse for those who do not enjoy the game as Richard Garfield intended, playing as few win conditions as possible and prompting concession after all hopes (and spells) are lost. - Shaheen Soorani


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 Post subject: Re: Ravnica Allegiance
AgePosted: 2018-Dec-20 1:01 pm 

Joined: 2011-Jan-03 4:23 pm
Age: Drake
Meanwhile, Rosewater said that Adapt was, for all intents and purposes, the returning mechanic. (Sufficiently similar to Monstrosity.) So the Azorius are not getting detain (or forecast) back.


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 Post subject: Re: Ravnica Allegiance
AgePosted: 2018-Dec-20 2:05 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
Coco wrote:
Provoke is basically a worse version of "when this attacks, fight target creature."

Actually, it's better in a number of ways - for example, a small provoke creature can keep a key blocker from blocking what it needs to block, and provoke lets you trigger abilities that care about a creature becoming blocked. None of that is to say that they should be bringing it back or anything, but it's more nuanced than just fighting.

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"The President's job - and if someone sufficiently vain and stupid is picked he won't realize this - is not to wield power, but to draw attention away from it." -- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide tot he Galaxy Radio Transcripts predicting the future.


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