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 Post subject: Commander 2019
AgePosted: 2019-Feb-22 4:45 am 
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Joined: 2012-Dec-03 3:16 am
Age: Elder Dragon
I gotta say, there is way too much information way too soon here: https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/announcing-core-set-2020-and-commander-2019-edition-2019-02-21

Commander (2019 Edition) comes back to shake things up! This year, we'll be releasing four decks in English, Japanese, French, Italian, German, Spanish, Portuguese, and Russian!

Commander (2019 Edition) will be available in stores everywhere August 23. Watch for previews in early August!

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Shabbaman wrote:
The usual answer is "the social contract", but I guess that is not what you are looking for. Try house rules.


With perfect mana, reasonable removal, disruption, and card advantage, we're back to pitchforks and torches. And it's about to get worse for those who do not enjoy the game as Richard Garfield intended, playing as few win conditions as possible and prompting concession after all hopes (and spells) are lost. - Shaheen Soorani


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 Post subject: Re: Commander 2019
AgePosted: 2019-Feb-22 6:42 am 

Joined: 2012-Mar-31 11:52 am
Age: Elder Dragon
It's a good thing you put that inside a spoiler. I'd hate for someone to try to keep it a surprise only to accidentally find out that yes, they are in fact doing precons this year.


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 Post subject: Re: Commander 2019
AgePosted: 2019-Feb-22 6:58 am 

Joined: 2010-Dec-14 4:04 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Boston, MA
Plus the text of the link kinda spoils it anyways.

But to address the original post, I think it is about on par with how far in advance they announce the names of new sets. Maybe they are just trying to get on the same schedule with the supplemental products.

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 Post subject: Re: Commander 2019
AgePosted: 2019-Feb-22 7:41 am 
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I'll make a note to watch for previews in early August.

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 Post subject: Re: Commander 2019
AgePosted: 2019-Feb-25 2:39 am 
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Joined: 2012-Dec-03 3:16 am
Age: Elder Dragon
I just thought it was funny how little information they conveyed in that announcement. I mean we know that there are 4 decks this time around (again) so that could mean that there are themes instead of colors driving what types of decks. That isn't suprizing as that was what they did with C18 and considering they increased the MSRP... wait, they aren't doing that anymore... Well, looks like we just don't know what we will have to pay, so hopefully you can find it at a big box store instead of having to pay whatever your lgs is going to charge.

I am really just not a fan of some of these choices.



https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/no-more-msrp-2019-02-18

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Shabbaman wrote:
The usual answer is "the social contract", but I guess that is not what you are looking for. Try house rules.


With perfect mana, reasonable removal, disruption, and card advantage, we're back to pitchforks and torches. And it's about to get worse for those who do not enjoy the game as Richard Garfield intended, playing as few win conditions as possible and prompting concession after all hopes (and spells) are lost. - Shaheen Soorani


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 Post subject: Re: Commander 2019
AgePosted: 2019-Feb-25 6:12 am 
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Joined: 2011-Feb-07 3:37 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Danbury, CT
MSRP has been a polite fiction for quite a few years now. How often did anyone buy a booster box at MSRP? How 'bout a FTV set?

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 Post subject: Re: Commander 2019
AgePosted: 2019-Feb-28 9:33 am 

Joined: 2014-Jul-26 11:35 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Inkeyes22 wrote:
Well, looks like we just don't know what we will have to pay, so hopefully you can find it at a big box store instead of having to pay whatever your lgs is going to charge.


*What your LGS is required to charge in order to remain in business.*

Wizards recently increased what they charge distributors for boxes without increasing MSRP (As reported on Magic Mics podcast last week), want to guess who got screwed in that exchange?

If your LGS is gouging you then sure, screw them, but you can't play magic at Wallmart, so if the LGS is selling it for a reasonable price, we really should buy it there. Amazon will absolutely have it cheaper, but that is because they will happily eat hundreds of thousands of dollars in losses in order to burn brick and mortar stores to the ground.

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 Post subject: Re: Commander 2019
AgePosted: 2019-Feb-28 5:00 pm 

Joined: 2012-Apr-11 7:17 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Kemev wrote:
MSRP has been a polite fiction for quite a few years now. How often did anyone buy a booster box at MSRP? How 'bout a FTV set?

I have paid MSRP for every single commander product from my LGS and always pay less than 100 for boxes. I agree FTV rarely gets an MSRP tag, but lets be honest about LGS on the others.

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 Post subject: Re: Commander 2019
AgePosted: 2019-Feb-28 5:41 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Dec-03 3:16 am
Age: Elder Dragon
specter404 wrote:
Inkeyes22 wrote:
Well, looks like we just don't know what we will have to pay, so hopefully you can find it at a big box store instead of having to pay whatever your lgs is going to charge.


*What your LGS is required to charge in order to remain in business.*

Wizards recently increased what they charge distributors for boxes without increasing MSRP (As reported on Magic Mics podcast last week), want to guess who got screwed in that exchange?

If your LGS is gouging you then sure, screw them, but you can't play magic at Wallmart, so if the LGS is selling it for a reasonable price, we really should buy it there. Amazon will absolutely have it cheaper, but that is because they will happily eat hundreds of thousands of dollars in losses in order to burn brick and mortar stores to the ground.


I am all for paying a little bit more to get it right away and be able to inspect it for issues before buying, but I am not going to pay 15-20% more for that. Most of the commander decks the lgs were charging $50 or more... I could go to the Target that is less than 1/2 a mile and get it for MSRP. I pretty much play exclusively at either my home or a friends house so the "can't play at Target" argument doesn't matter to me.

I get to the shop maybe 4-6 times a year, I used to go to all the prereleases but of the last few years I made it to Guilds of Ravnica and that is it. I have about 4 shops within 45 minutes of my house, they rarely charged MSRP. One does $10 drafts and they do the same prices as CFB so I will pick up some singles from there when I go.

I gave up on FTV as they tend to be kinda meh... I mean I will likely want 1-3 cards from them, but I can just buy the singles later or you know... get the regular versions. I like foils and promos, sure but I have a hard time justifing paying $60 for an FNM Brainstorm when I can get another option for $1.

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Shabbaman wrote:
The usual answer is "the social contract", but I guess that is not what you are looking for. Try house rules.


With perfect mana, reasonable removal, disruption, and card advantage, we're back to pitchforks and torches. And it's about to get worse for those who do not enjoy the game as Richard Garfield intended, playing as few win conditions as possible and prompting concession after all hopes (and spells) are lost. - Shaheen Soorani


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 Post subject: Re: Commander 2019
AgePosted: 2019-Mar-02 6:14 am 

Joined: 2011-Feb-15 7:09 am
Age: Drake
I'm also conscious of the support your lgs argument, however I was told by my lgs that the margin on ccg is too low to make a profit on anyhow, they're really making their money of other products, and hoping you'll buy some snacks and drinks while you're at their store


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 Post subject: Commander is not an LGS supporting format
AgePosted: 2019-Mar-05 6:31 am 

Joined: 2017-Jun-13 4:56 am
Age: Drake
Classic Commander Forum, if anybody tells a subtle joke there's absolutely no way anyone will realize they are joking XD
Because so many of the ridiculous posts on here are dead serious 0.o

Pricing is weird and complicated for sealed products. Artificial demand reliant of good-faith participation literally can't have hard rules, because the socially generated "value" of the product is based on so many things. I'm sad to see prices go up for stores, but hopefully it'll be fine without them raising their prices too much?

Otherwise the entire Commander format is kind of irrelevant to LGS sales. Commander players don't really buy sealed products outside of the yearly Commander precons, and the high spenders buy a full set of 4 or 5 typically. I could, unfortunately, see the precon price going as high as $60 before the backlash was intense enough to make them roll it back. After last year though? Price probably isn't going up.

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 Post subject: Re: Commander is not an LGS supporting format
AgePosted: 2019-Mar-08 3:09 am 
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Joined: 2011-Jan-16 5:36 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Toronto, ON
Evilkritter wrote:
Otherwise the entire Commander format is kind of irrelevant to LGS sales. Commander players don't really buy sealed products outside of the yearly Commander precons, and the high spenders buy a full set of 4 or 5 typically. I could, unfortunately, see the precon price going as high as $60 before the backlash was intense enough to make them roll it back. After last year though? Price probably isn't going up.

Gonna disagree with you here. The LGSs in my city usually make their money on singles (usually singles for Standard), and on things other than CCGs (especially board games). Less so on the CCGs in general; I would venture that they make way more on the board games and RPG books/accessories.

Sealed ccg product is definitely not where they make their money.

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 Post subject: Re: Commander is not an LGS supporting format
AgePosted: 2019-Mar-08 3:07 pm 

Joined: 2017-Jun-13 4:56 am
Age: Drake
Sinis wrote:
Evilkritter wrote:
Otherwise the entire Commander format is kind of irrelevant to LGS sales. Commander players don't really buy sealed products outside of the yearly Commander precons, and the high spenders buy a full set of 4 or 5 typically. I could, unfortunately, see the precon price going as high as $60 before the backlash was intense enough to make them roll it back. After last year though? Price probably isn't going up.

Gonna disagree with you here. The LGSs in my city usually make their money on singles (usually singles for Standard), and on things other than CCGs (especially board games). Less so on the CCGs in general; I would venture that they make way more on the board games and RPG books/accessories.

Sealed ccg product is definitely not where they make their money.

My claim is that Commander Players do not purchase sealed product often enough for MSRP/competition reduced prices to harm the LGS. I don't see the conflict between your assertion and mine, so I'm not sure what you disagree with.

The lucrative nature of magic single resale is a big part of the appeal for LGSs, that I definitely agree with. Assuming an LGS has critical mass of traffic to reliably supply cards people actually want, the only cost of selling other than purchasing the card for their inventory is storing a piece of cardboard, so it's virtually 100% profit on whatever their buy/sell margin is.

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 Post subject: Re: Commander is not an LGS supporting format
AgePosted: 2019-Mar-09 3:19 am 
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Joined: 2011-Jan-16 5:36 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Toronto, ON
Evilkritter wrote:
My claim is that Commander Players do not purchase sealed product often enough for MSRP/competition reduced prices to harm the LGS. I don't see the conflict between your assertion and mine, so I'm not sure what you disagree with.
Oh, sure. LGSs won't suffer because Commander players buy sealed product two or three times a year (usually when commander-specific products come out, or very commander-friendly products appear, like Battlebond/Conspiracy).

But, I wouldn't imagine that commander players, specifically, make up a huge part of the income of an LGS.

The price increase in sealed product will have downstream consequences for LGSs though. People will not buy as much, and as less gets opened, singles will be more scarce and cost more (which will further reduce sales). That much is observed and fairly well known.

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 Post subject: Re: Commander is not an LGS supporting format
AgePosted: 2019-Mar-09 8:43 am 
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Joined: 2012-Sep-19 1:30 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Sinis wrote:
The price increase in sealed product will have downstream consequences for LGSs though. People will not buy as much, and as less gets opened, singles will be more scarce and cost more (which will further reduce sales). That much is observed and fairly well known.

The bigger issue is that a lot of the purchasers of sealed product are newer players. If the price tag is higher, it's harder to get new players into the game. No new players = stagnant/dying community.

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