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 Post subject: How banned is banned? Does it extend beyond deck construct?
AgePosted: 2019-Apr-04 12:40 am 

Joined: 2019-Apr-03 11:52 pm
Age: Hatchling
Location: Eastern NC
Just an odd question. The way I read the banned and restricted rules it only applied to when building the deck/sideboard. I think that would mean that banned cards could get played and restricted cards exceed 1 in a game if something can bring it from outside the game.

Example: Emrakul, the Aeons Torn is banned in commander so as I understand banned or restricted rules I cannot include it in my deck or sideboard. Spawnsire of Ulamog is legal. If in a casual game, where a player cleared this card's use, if they do the last ability where they can pull any Eldrazi cards from outside the game into it and brought in "Emrakul, the Aeons Torn" and that is perfectly legal. Right?

The tournament use of last ability being restricted to sideboard would prevent ever seeing this banned Emrakul in that format, but makes it seem like sideboards can be created for this format type, even if just for use with cards like Spawnsire.

Also, I hope I've not revisiting a past topic, searches didn't appear to find it even though I had expected to see that somewhere already.

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 Post subject: Re: How banned is banned? Does it extend beyond deck construct?
AgePosted: 2019-Apr-04 2:24 am 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
Effects which pull cards from outside the game essentially don't function in Commander. Your casual play group would need to approve of your use of cards outside the game (which is a very popular topic here, but normally revolves around wish cards).

Using banned cards in any manner in a game really should require prior approval from your casual play group. I suggest getting permission for both before proceeding.

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 Post subject: Re: How banned is banned? Does it extend beyond deck construct?
AgePosted: 2019-Apr-04 2:32 am 
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Joined: 2008-Mar-24 12:14 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Oakland, CA
Hello and welcome to the forums! Here are some discussions you may have missed in your search:

mtgcommander.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=19073
mtgcommander.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=19055
mtgcommander.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=19049
mtgcommander.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18903

None of these explicitly answer your question, but they all relate to the rules for what a "card from outside the game" officially means in this format. In official terms, Wishes and Spawnsire cannot find any cards. You can read those threads for more detailed explanation.

If I understand your question correctly, you are asking what a "card from outside the game" means in ANY format, when playing casually. I don't think there can be an official answer for this, as you are specifically asking about unofficial play. My personal inclination would be not to allow any cards to be Wished in if they could not be included in your deck to begin with. But as is always the answer with casual play, ask your playgroup what they allow. If you can all have fun accessing normally banned cards through a loophole you agree to create, then have fun!


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 Post subject: Re: How banned is banned? Does it extend beyond deck construct?
AgePosted: 2019-Apr-04 3:02 am 

Joined: 2019-Apr-03 11:52 pm
Age: Hatchling
Location: Eastern NC
Thanks @intreped and @Segrus for detailed replies and links. I guess I was looking too close for Spawnsire in my search.

I guess in casual play I could hand them a stack of Skittering Invasions and It That Betrayses (I think cards outside the game should be exempt from 1/deck rule since they are not in the deck+SB) or the Emrakul and them pick. :lol:

Again, thanks for the replies. I'm just getting back into MTG again and like this format idea, I plan to just play what I get. Working on idea around Jodah, Archmage Eternal as commander and with the common high CMC of Eldrazi and such I could make it interesting, not a alway win, but fun and competitive with the pre-con commander decks a couple friends like.


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 Post subject: Re: How banned is banned? Does it extend beyond deck construct?
AgePosted: 2019-Apr-04 3:53 am 
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Joined: 2006-Dec-31 12:26 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
ControlNode wrote:
(I think cards outside the game should be exempt from 1/deck rule since they are not in the deck+SB)

That is something that should be cleared beforehand for sure. General consensus if you read those threads is that allowing wishes or similar cards to work, they would still abide by the commander colour identity and limit of 1 (barring things like Relentless Rats that specifically say you can have more than 1 of them.)

That said -- ran into someone who said that in their commander deck they would use Ring of Ma'Ruf to get a Charizard card and then put it into play (it didn't do anything, it wasn't a creature so couldn't attack, it's not a player or planeswalker so you couldn't attack it, etc.) I found it hilarious that, were I ruling on it, I'd allow it in my group if thats' how they wanted to use their resources :)

So it can really depend on the group, and if you 'abuse' their trust or not. Remember the goal is to have fun playing the format, but that doesn't mean at the expense of your opponents having fun (obviously you want them to lose, but they probably wouldn't like to lose to something they feel is 'cheezy' (which is very subjective.))


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 Post subject: Re: How banned is banned? Does it extend beyond deck construct?
AgePosted: 2019-Apr-04 8:39 am 
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Joined: 2006-May-18 5:21 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
The reason that the rule is set up the way it is is so that when having the conversation about allowing Wishes to work, it also sets the parameters on what a playgroup allows. If your playgroup decides to continue following the singleton rules, great. If they want to allow Charizard, also great. Rules 13 makes this conversation happen and defaults to the safe approach.


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 Post subject: Re: How banned is banned? Does it extend beyond deck construct?
AgePosted: 2019-Apr-05 12:21 am 
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Joined: 2006-May-24 10:14 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Tampa, FL, USA
Like Toby said, in world in which sideboards/wish boards were allowed, you're moving away from the base parameters, so you'll need to have a discussion on the scope of what's allowed and come to some agreement. That's the system working the way it's designed.

Just thinking about the hypothetical, if we were to make a SB/WB rule, the cards in it would still have to follow color identity, singleton, and Banned List restrictions.

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