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 Post subject: Re: I’ve been playing for a Decade+ and this is how I feel
AgePosted: 2019-May-13 3:53 am 

Joined: 2017-Oct-19 12:02 am
Age: Drake
Thraximundar wrote:

You try to counter their spell, they kill you with goblin bombardment and fizzle the counterspell.

You play counterspells, they play chaos wand they play your counter spells.

Not to mention the fact that cast triggers are becoming more common so possbility storm, lurking predators, all the titan eldrazi etc etc. wreak counterspell play.

Sorry I didn’t think I had to spell out all the simple examples of why counterspells are terrible forums of removal and can be outplayed easily. They feel unfun until you actual understand how the game works around them. I’m assuming you don’t know much about the game stopping to your level of intellect on this conversation just to point out how rude your being. If you don’t like that maybe you should try reading the full post of all the issues I brought up rather then the one line I made where I assumed you didn’t have any experience in the game at all because to me you haven’t proven otherwise.

Also still waiting to see the retort on Why your response isn’t a huge strawman of the general causal community.


You talk about my intellect without knowing who I am, and then you say I am the one using falacies , ok. (By the way, english is not my natal tongue, is just one of the 5 languaes I write/speak/read spanish being my natal tongue and I have a university degree in computer science) and If you are so interested in knowing more of me, I have been playing MTG from 8th edition and commander since 2016

You gave several examples of how bad counterspells are, you havent played against me, thats all I can say , and if anyone is playing chaos in a table you can be sure I will be playing my Markov deck and the chaos wont live pass turn 3-4

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 Post subject: Re: I’ve been playing for a Decade+ and this is how I feel
AgePosted: 2019-May-13 4:03 am 

Joined: 2019-Apr-29 9:42 pm
Age: Drake
Ummm I can say the same for you. The point is that you’ve assumed far too much and read far too little. If English isn’t your main language I can understand that this might be a communication barrier, but that doesn’t mean you can attribute things to me in the same way I shouldn’t attribute things to you. My example of how much experience you have based on your assumption that counterspell are being called to be banned is me pointing out all the flaws in your argument and creating a strawman outta of low haning furit.

If you read any of the post it clearly stated we ban things within our group that we determined and the only two things those are infinite combos (when someone does one they ‘won the game but we still play it out) and sol ring, which usually end the game too fast if played in the early game.

You have taken that to the highest level and didn’t even mentioned how we are unbanning griselbrand and reoccuring nightmare.

How else can one act if a person makes a such a large leap to conclusion based on nothing but a strawman argument? Well I’m going to address your claims in a strawman of my own and point out how rediclous it is. That what I meant when saying I said, “intellect on this conversation“, I meant that I would have to bring myself down with a strawman to show you how silly it is. This might have come off as me calling you stupid and for that I appolgize. As I said before you shouldn’t take this personally and that I’m not taking it personally.

As for how long I’ve been playing since original Mirrodin and I’ve played edh since 2008/2009. While it was still an underground format and we heard about it and seen people playing in at the shop. It seemed like an appropriate reprieve from standard and legacy play.

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 Post subject: Re: I’ve been playing for a Decade+ and this is how I feel
AgePosted: 2019-May-20 12:59 pm 

Joined: 2012-Apr-11 7:17 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Thrax all I have seen in this thread is reasons I would not be interested in playing with you. And trust me when I say it has nothing to do with your house rules.

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niheloim wrote:
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 Post subject: Re: I’ve been playing for a Decade+ and this is how I feel
AgePosted: 2019-May-20 4:35 pm 

Joined: 2019-Apr-29 9:42 pm
Age: Drake
MRHblue wrote:
Thrax all I have seen in this thread is reasons I would not be interested in playing with you. And trust me when I say it has nothing to do with your house rules.


Would be nice if you pointed out how I handled the situation poorly. How can one better themsleves if they don’t know the issues they have?

I thought I was being fair and reasonable, but I’m opened to the possbility of being wrong.

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Deck list Jund creature combo (not updated)


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 Post subject: Re: I’ve been playing for a Decade+ and this is how I feel
AgePosted: 2019-May-21 6:49 am 

Joined: 2012-Apr-11 7:17 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Thraximundar wrote:
Would be nice if you pointed out how I handled the situation poorly. How can one better themsleves if they don’t know the issues they have?

I thought I was being fair and reasonable, but I’m opened to the possbility of being wrong.

You have laid out how you think the game should be played, then said anyone who had a counter-point 'does not understand the game', 'did not understand you', 'didn't read your posts', 'or has English as a second language'. The post is myopic to the point of cringe, where you dismiss the usefulness of the RC while patting yourself on the back for banning Prime Time a year earlier.

The post seems to try and pick a fight, be self-congratulatory, and pretend to want a discussion all at once.

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sir squab wrote:
My... history of buying Magic cards is probably a tapestry of bad financial decisions >_>
niheloim wrote:
No, I think he's right. I'm just all butt-hurt over prophet.


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 Post subject: Re: I’ve been playing for a Decade+ and this is how I feel
AgePosted: 2019-May-21 2:01 pm 

Joined: 2019-Apr-29 9:42 pm
Age: Drake
Imma work though the list of issue you seem to have or have attributed to me. I don’t want my words/text to misinterpreted.

“You have laid out how you think the game should be played”
> this whole thread has been about me and my groups feelings on edh and the cardgame in general. I’ve never forced anyone to play it differently outside of our group. I’m talking about the game from my prospective and somehow that has been classified as, “forcing others to play your way”. At no point has anyone outside of our edh group felt ousted because of how we play the game. We get to choose to continue to play and they get to choose to wait for the game to end at its normal pace or not.

“then said anyone who had a counter-point 'does not understand the game', 'did not understand you', 'didn't read your posts”.
>>The counterpoints have been recently made based on a strawman arguement as of late. Accusing someone of being a ban happy player when no eveidence has been made seems unfair. I find most conversations turn into fights because someone miscommunicated or missed something in the conversation. I think it’s a good idea to ask people to clarify what the issue they have is and when someone contuines to wrap up the issue with a false assumption you have someone beating up a strawman without identifying the actual conversation at hand. The easiest way to point out a strawman is to make one of the user and point out how silly the premise is. This jointly brings you down to their level of the conversation, but also forces them to look at how rediclious their premise is. That is what I was attempting to do and I did not intend to insult.

“ 'or has English as a second language”

alexev, “By the way, english is not my natal tongue, is just one of the 5 languaes I write/speak/read spanish being my natal tongue and I have a university degree in computer science”

>>> I don’t know if English is their 2nd or 5th language, but I could tell there was some sort of miscommunication and misunderstanding happening. This is a quote from the post this person sent and not my own words.

“The post is myopic to the point of cringe, where you dismiss the usefulness of the RC while patting yourself on the back for banning Prime Time a year earlier.

The post seems to try and pick a fight, be self-congratulatory, and pretend to want a discussion all at once.”

>>>> RC has been good for the community as a whole and has developed a following they wish to keep and grow/make a healthy format. That is not entire the same goals of every table and the simple fact that every table has a different meta means they should participate in the game in what ever way suits them.

>>>You claim that I am patting myself on the back when I’m pointing out issues I’ve had in the past with how slow the RC moves to ban cards that are definitely unhealthy for the format. Somehow this has turned into patting myself on the back, but this is just an example of how our group has manage to toe a similar line of thinking to the RC. I don’t see why this should be viewed as a ‘bad thing’ or from the context of self congratulations, but I’m happy we could make a good decision as fresh players to the format without having our hands held by the RC.

>>>As for picking fights I’m more interested in picking brains of those who enjoy and play in the format. The fight you might see is an attempt to not be dragged into a conversation that has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. Like I said before, “ we unbanned Griselbranned and reoccuring nightmare in our playgroup”. Hard to have someone who wants to ban everything and still trying to test the formats bans at the same time. Contradictory information is what that looks like to me.

I’ve also apologized because I mistyped/misspoke and I wanted to show how the conversation was going to be dragged into the mud of a fallacy just to show why their strawman of the conversation was ridiculous and not an accurate portrayal of what’s being discussed.

I cannot help what people feel about the things I say. I can only state things and people react as they do. If something gets lost in the feed between two people I try to make sure the conversation at hand is being met and people understand the points the other is trying to make. Allowing something to be distorted is unhelpful to that end and is the worst thing if you want to achieve the bare minimum of communicating ideas. Which is that you at least identify and understand the other persons point of view.

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Deck list Jund creature combo (not updated)


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 Post subject: Re: I’ve been playing for a Decade+ and this is how I feel
AgePosted: 2019-May-21 4:15 pm 

Joined: 2012-Apr-11 7:17 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Thraximundar wrote:
I’m talking about the game from my prospective and somehow that has been classified as, “forcing others to play your way”.
I certainly said no such thing, and have not seen anyone else do so. Its not that you have a perspective, its your idea any way else is 'less than'. More in a moment.
Quote:
At no point has anyone outside of our edh group felt ousted because of how we play the game. We get to choose to continue to play and they get to choose to wait for the game to end at its normal pace or not.
I very seriously doubt this, that extensive a set of house rules would rub someone the wrong way. They just choose to move on, or play within the bounds of the group for simplicity sake.

Quote:
I don’t see why this should be viewed as a ‘bad thing’ or from the context of self congratulations, but I’m happy we could make a good decision as fresh players to the format without having our hands held by the RC.
This is a great example of exactly that. Implying anyone who didn't ban Prime Time a year earlier needs their 'hand held' is purposely combative and self-congratulatory

Thraximundar wrote:
I don’t like how it feels like the RC wants to make the format as wide as possible for newer players in the community by protecting them from ‘unfun cards’.
This honestly reads as 'we have a group with set rules, step up or get out'. Building the social contract has to have a starting point, the philosophy you degrade here is the start of that.

Quote:
On the other hand my group unbanned Geiselbrand and reoccuring nightmare. We don’t play sol ring or infinite combos so those cards are fine and easily played around.
Again you say things matter-of-factly, like the only issue with GB or Nightmare is Sol ring or infinites. The actual reason those are banned is actualy spelled out, but you dismiss them as RC over-protectiveness.

Quote:
I cannot help what people read into I can only help explain what I mean. There is only one thing I can control in this at it’s the words typed into the forum. I do not think it’s fair to attribute things to someone based on seeet nothings. Which is vary rude indeed.
I based everything I said on what you posted.

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My... history of buying Magic cards is probably a tapestry of bad financial decisions >_>
niheloim wrote:
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 Post subject: Re: I’ve been playing for a Decade+ and this is how I feel
AgePosted: 2019-May-21 4:58 pm 

Joined: 2019-Apr-29 9:42 pm
Age: Drake
Thraximundar wrote:
>>>I’m talking about the game from my prospective and somehow that has been classified as, “forcing others to play your way”.

“I certainly said no such thing, and have not seen anyone else do so. Its not that you have a perspective, its your idea any way else is 'less than'. More in a moment.”

“You have laid out how you think the game should be played”<<<< I don’t know how to make this more clear. It’s your words so how can I point this out more...

“Its not that you have a perspective, its your idea any way else is 'less than'. More in a moment.”

<<< we play within a group of friends, this is usually at someone house or when we meet at a card table. If someone joins we let them know we don’t play infinite’s and sol ring. They end up doing what ever they want from there on. If you don’t like the social contract of someone who is going to continue the game after you killed everyone knowing they play casual then don’t play with them. It’s totally up to that person. This isn’t banning anything and in fact you get to play your combo. The simple fact that you decided to play cEDH around casual players is why we started implementing this social contract. Don’t like it then don’t sit down. Can’t wait for the game to finish normally then play at another table. People get the point and just play a fun deck without infinite’s because they don’t want to be left out by their own hands.

“I very seriously doubt this, that extensive a set of house rules would rub someone the wrong way. They just choose to move on, or play within the bounds of the group for simplicity sake.”

>>Based on what house rules. Just checking if you are paying attention to the conversation or if there seems to be a bit of miscommunication. Seems like I’ve mentioned this a few times. When we player with other people who are outside of the group we go with the traditional RC rules and example before the game starts that we play casual non infinite decks without sol ring. So far out meta has been fairly healthy save for one or two people who complain when they get targeted or their hand is disruptived by sire of insanity both of which are sound strategies in our pool.

“This is a great example of exactly that. Implying anyone who didn't ban Prime Time a year earlier needs their 'hand held' is purposely combative and self-congratulatory “

>>So I shouldn’t mention it because even if it ended up being a good decision and done in a timely manner well before the bans showing a feel for the format inline with the RC. I shouldn’t give examples of that because? Idk seems like a petty thing to me to be so concerned with examples and eveidence that group and house rules can work inside of a playgroup and can be done in a reasonable fashion.

“This honestly reads as 'we have a group with set rules, step up or get out'. Building the social contract has to have a starting point, the philosophy you degrade here is the start of that.”

>>>umm don’t attribute things that I didn’t said. Still wondering if you will get back to how I didn’t accuse someone of having English as a secondary language or the way I handled the previous posters strawman fallacy. I’m not going to do the same pony trick again it seems to have been miscommunicated or taken wrong and I think we’ve derailed enough from the subject at hand.

“Again you say things matter-of-factly, like the only issue with GB or Nightmare is Sol ring or infinites. The actual reason those are banned is actualy spelled out, but you dismiss them as RC over-protectiveness”

>>>So by pointing out someone going overboard saying I’m like a player who would ban counter spells. Even though we have unbanned cards on our own to test them in our playgroup seems like an easy example Of skipping over the details. I can’t be a person who wants to ban all unfun cards and yet I want to also test cards that have been banned in our group. Seems like a good example of someone not paying attention to the conversation at hand to me.

“I based everything I said on what you posted.”

>>>> you’ve accused me of many things, didn’t have anything to back it up, attrubuted a character of an argument and turned it on me, then Finally said it was my own words when it’s how you feel when reading it.

I’m not going to be responsible for how you feel. That’s a personal problem your going to have to deal with that on your own and I shouldn’t be responsible for those feelings just because you make me into a villain to defeat. I’m sorry but if you don’t actually have something to add about the post then I’m done defending myself from a keyboard warrior. Obviously you have a beef to pick even though it’s not with me and I hope you solve whatever issue you got.

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Deck list Thraximundar midrange/control

Deck list Jund creature combo (not updated)


Last edited by Thraximundar on 2019-May-24 3:18 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: I’ve been playing for a Decade+ and this is how I feel
AgePosted: 2019-May-21 10:25 pm 
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Joined: 2014-Jul-28 8:30 am
Age: Dragon
In my experience, the players who complain about infinites are really annoying to play with. The false sense of superiority is a huge turn off. Specifically the players at my LGS who decry infinite combos (regardless if they're two or five card rube goldberg machines) play oppressive, obnoxious decks that often cut as close to infinite combos as possible. For this reason, I avoid their pods.

I have found the general "power level" discussion before the game starts to be the most effective way for everyone to have fun.

Thrax, you complain that your playgroup has become unfun. Perhaps its time to try a new approach and go back to random games at your LGS with a discussion of deck power levels beforehand. You may run into cards and strategies you don't like, but your builds may not be everyone's cup of tea, either. But somewhere in between, with a little open-mindedness and owning both the intent and the impact of your personal play philosophy, you might find some new people you enjoy playing with.

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 Post subject: Re: I’ve been playing for a Decade+ and this is how I feel
AgePosted: 2019-May-22 12:49 am 

Joined: 2019-Apr-29 9:42 pm
Age: Drake
kirkusjones wrote:
In my experience, the players who complain about infinites are really annoying to play with. The false sense of superiority is a huge turn off. Specifically the players at my LGS who decry infinite combos (regardless if they're two or five card rube goldberg machines) play oppressive, obnoxious decks that often cut as close to infinite combos as possible. For this reason, I avoid their pods.

I have found the general "power level" discussion before the game starts to be the most effective way for everyone to have fun.

Thrax, you complain that your playgroup has become unfun. Perhaps its time to try a new approach and go back to random games at your LGS with a discussion of deck power levels beforehand. You may run into cards and strategies you don't like, but your builds may not be everyone's cup of tea, either. But somewhere in between, with a little open-mindedness and owning both the intent and the impact of your personal play philosophy, you might find some new people you enjoy playing with.


>>>I play with around 20+ players outside of my pod and 6-8 of them are cEDH level. My main deck is actually competive against them even if I don’t have any infinite combos or fast mana. Only the most tune cEDH decks beat it down 100% of the time.

>> with that said, I’m more or less feeling how unfun my table of friends/playgroup feels when they have a strong effect played against them and they complain. Every deck being played is a midrange or control deck usually using the most powerful cards. Sometimes it’s greater good or necropotance, but it’s always something that drawls a bunch of cards that usually propels them into winning the game. So cards like emrakul,worst fears, mind slicer, and sire of insanity are vary good for that reason. However they complain and get into a huge argument every time those effects are played because it’s just too good vs their deck, but also I see their point. It’s not fun to watch someone else play the game and this is double for watching someone else play your turn and put you in the worst possible position because of it. Mind control effects can exile a commander and that’s so much worst then tucking and if I have the ability to win the game I’m going to exile your commander.

>>> I think you are right about this sense of playing honorably or at a different level. Don’t know if I would call it a sense of superiority, but I guess it’s all in the eye of the beholder.

>>> I mention my powerlevels and typically what I expect in the game and also tell them if they go infinite that I want to play the game out to its normal conclusion. This keeps people from trolling the casual players without them complaining that they didn’t play the game. Allowing them to eject themselves seems like the only reasonable solution to the whole format. They get to win and you get to play. If they actually want a game they would play a deck that’s built to play in the level you seek, if not they can choose to win and bounce outta the game on their own terms. It’s all up to them and I don’t see any harm in this social aspect.

>>>> that being said the game has to end some point and if someone assembled a 4-5 card combo on turn 13+ and everyone wants to play a new game there is no reason to not shuffle up. These sorta “house rules” are not set in stone and is best used as a flexible measuring stick of how to obtain a well played game. It’s something we all seek, but isn’t always obtained. Most of the games I’ve played usually are those games. The ones where everyone felt they interacted and played something meaningful or had the chance to win before getting answered in a timely manner. I know cEDH offers that by playing at the highest level and allows for more games so they shuffle up, but I’ve been able to have more of that experience when I’m playing with non infinite decks and decks that take out sol ring when they are optimized/tuned. <<<<

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 Post subject: Re: I’ve been playing for a Decade+ and this is how I feel
AgePosted: 2019-May-22 9:03 am 

Joined: 2012-Apr-11 7:17 am
Age: Elder Dragon
I am not the one complaining about how others play the game, limiting how others play, and then wondering why I am not having a good time currently.

Take a look inward Thrax, I am done being talked at.

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sir squab wrote:
My... history of buying Magic cards is probably a tapestry of bad financial decisions >_>
niheloim wrote:
No, I think he's right. I'm just all butt-hurt over prophet.


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 Post subject: Re: I’ve been playing for a Decade+ and this is how I feel
AgePosted: 2019-May-22 9:47 am 
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Joined: 2014-Jul-28 8:30 am
Age: Dragon
Out of curiosity, why ban Sol Ring but not Mana Crypt?

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specter404 wrote:
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Gath Immortal wrote:
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 Post subject: Re: I’ve been playing for a Decade+ and this is how I feel
AgePosted: 2019-May-23 4:03 pm 

Joined: 2019-Apr-29 9:42 pm
Age: Drake
“Out of curiosity, why ban Sol Ring but not Mana Crypt?”

Well the few games that someone has a mana crypt they kill you with and infinite cEDH deck or they die to it because they are playing stacks. Most games we play go to turn 12+ so the early advantage only works if the card doesn’t deal 15 damage to you. The card seems to be fine when this life cost is meet and the social aspect clears out the other issue.

Stacks decks get rolled by more casual list so they are never really an issue and typically end up kingmaking someone in our meta. Usually because someone briberies a seedborn muse or they cast bolgarn hellkite while Armageddon is on the stack.

Typically if the game goes on for way too long we just target them if they play hard stacks. It’s one thing to answer and try to prevent people from winning it’s another to blow up all the lands or keep them tapped with no real way of winning. I don’t even like winning those games other then the satisfaction that their deck didn’t work.

I personally hate stacks but most people don’t play it because it just feels like cancer. A slow a tendency one at that.

Short version= game goes longer mana crypt gets worst and usually the owner needs to remove it.

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Deck list Jund creature combo (not updated)


Last edited by Thraximundar on 2019-May-24 12:30 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: I’ve been playing for a Decade+ and this is how I feel
AgePosted: 2019-May-23 4:14 pm 

Joined: 2019-Apr-29 9:42 pm
Age: Drake
MRHblue wrote:
I am not the one complaining about how others play the game, limiting how others play, and then wondering why I am not having a good time currently.

Take a look inward Thrax, I am done being talked at.



I wish you were done talking and had a higher reading level. Then maybe we could have an actual conversation rather then you dancing around accusing me of doing things I am not.

You’re a broken record and you think by repeating yourself it makes you right even if by uttering the same nonsense. This isn’t a cult it’s a community maybe you should understand the difference.

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 Post subject: Re: I’ve been playing for a Decade+ and this is how I feel
AgePosted: 2019-May-24 2:22 am 

Joined: 2011-Jun-22 8:08 am
Age: Drake
This thread needs more

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