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 Post subject: Is a discussion on slivers warranted?
AgePosted: 2019-May-22 3:43 am 

Joined: 2018-Jul-15 5:17 am
Age: Hatchling
They already have a general that can tutor for whatever answer they need. They already have multiple ways of going infinite. And now, they have this:

http://www.magicspoiler.com/mtg-spoiler/the-first-sliver/

I might be letting my personal bias seep into this, as I really hate playing against sliver decks. But I think this is a bit much.


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 Post subject: Re: Is a discussion on slivers warranted?
AgePosted: 2019-May-22 4:16 am 
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Joined: 2006-Dec-31 12:26 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
How is slivers different from other creature types? (btw, my brother used to play a sliver deck -- upon seeing The First Sliver, he mentioned he may need to put the deck back together. *sigh* )

Other than slivers being a decently supported creature type (although in bursts) - how is it different than something like Goblins?

The differences I see is that slivers are in all 5 colours, but then that means they need a more complex mana base to support it. We've recently seen a few new cards that hate on non-basics so (depending how allowed those cards are in your gaming group) that's not something insignificant to have to deal with.

But overall, I'm not worried about The First Sliver. Sure, it gives your slivers cascade, but then that means to take advantage of it, you need a bunch of slivers, which means you're more likely to cascade into other slivers -- which means a board wipe is more detrimental to them.

Also means that the recently released Massacre Girl will likely have more fun when she comes to play. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Is a discussion on slivers warranted?
AgePosted: 2019-May-22 5:15 am 

Joined: 2010-Dec-14 4:04 pm
Age: Dragon
Location: Boston, MA
Personally, I have never seen a slivers deck that can beat the archenemy nature of playing a slivers deck. The creature-based synergy just usually isn't powerful enough to beat a whole table that knows your plan from turn one and wants no part of it. I think this general is weaker then both Sliver Hivelord (who greatly reduces the chances for your opponent to interact with your board and allows you to defend yourself) and Sliver Overlord who can tutor for Hivelord.

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 Post subject: Re: Is a discussion on slivers warranted?
AgePosted: 2019-May-22 6:21 am 
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Joined: 2006-Dec-31 12:26 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Depends on the deck, and how the game plays out.

My brother's Sliver deck once beat a table of 8 on turn ... 6? 5? I forget, I just remember it was stupidly quick. However, he had to have the right cards, and had to have an opponent who (foolishly) pointed a mill card his way and put a bunch of stuff in his graveyard (My brother is known for using his graveyard as a 2nd hand ... so it was very close to letting him draw that many cards.)

So - it can be done ... but the stars had to align right for it to work :)


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 Post subject: Re: Is a discussion on slivers warranted?
AgePosted: 2019-May-22 7:05 am 

Joined: 2016-Feb-13 2:14 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Orlando, Florida
No, they're fine. Now they're slightly better.


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 Post subject: Re: Is a discussion on slivers warranted?
AgePosted: 2019-May-22 10:28 am 
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Joined: 2007-Mar-28 12:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Omaha
I think there's a logical disconnect between two different types of "sliver decks."

There are "fair" sliver decks, that look to assemble a critical mass of creatures that make each copy of themselves better. This is how the tribe is designed. Play a Muscle Sliver, a Winged Sliver, and a Sliver Hivelord, and each gets +1/+1, flying, and indestructible. These are vulnerable in various states to board-wipes

Then there are "unfair" sliver combo decks- -things looking to play Heartstone, Ashnod's Altar, and Sliver Queen to make infinite tokens- -or large-scale self-mill into Living Death- -or
Food Chain and The First Sliver to play your entire deck
.

None of these combo decks are doing anything more degenerate than Food Chain + Prossh, or Mike and Trike, or any number of other non-interactive combo finishes. You could argue for the restriction of some of the engine cards, but in these cases, I don't believe that it is the Sliver cards that are the offending culprit. (I mean, who plays Food Chain for value?)

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 Post subject: Re: Is a discussion on slivers warranted?
AgePosted: 2019-May-22 12:59 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
DegenerateGameGeek wrote:
I might be letting my personal bias seep into this, as I really hate playing against sliver decks. But I think this is a bit much.

Nope.

The Sliver legends we already have are far more troubling IMO, and none are ban-worthy. Queen is a combo piece, Overlord is a tutor with legs, Legion is Coat of Arms for just you and Hivelord is obnoxious levels of protection. As someone pointed out, cascading into more and more slivers probably just means overextending into a wrath.

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 Post subject: Re: Is a discussion on slivers warranted?
AgePosted: 2019-May-23 6:11 am 

Joined: 2009-Apr-21 3:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Palm Springs Area, CA
I'm much more excited to put The First Sliver into my Ramos deck than to use it in a sliver deck.

Its a neat design, but nothing that warrants a negative reaction.

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 Post subject: Re: Is a discussion on slivers warranted?
AgePosted: 2019-May-23 8:17 am 

Joined: 2014-Sep-13 7:28 am
Age: Elder Dragon
The only danger card presents is well outside of the 'sliver tribal' deck.

It's the nuttiest Food Chain commander ever!


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 Post subject: Re: Is a discussion on slivers warranted?
AgePosted: 2019-May-23 11:12 am 

Joined: 2011-Sep-01 5:25 pm
Age: Wyvern
I play Slivers I love the deck but it is “1st target” when I play it and that started after I killed 8 players after a Wrath of God then a Armageddon so I casted a Twilight’s Call at Instant speed and started killing

And The First Sliver is not that good and I have had a version of it in my deck for years it is called Maelstrom Nexus. Not as good but it gets the job done and I’m not putting a rush to get it


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 Post subject: Re: Is a discussion on slivers warranted?
AgePosted: 2019-May-23 1:25 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Jul-18 9:59 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
First Sliver is NOT like Maelstrom Nexus.

You play it, and cascade into a Sliver that costs 4 or less. Cool.

But now it's in play. And ALL of your Sliver spells have cascade.

So you cast a 5CMC sliver. That cascades into a (for example) 3 CMC sliver. You cast it, and THAT cascades into a 2CMC sliver, and THAT cascades into a 1CMC Sliver

And suddenly after casting one Sliver, you have 4 new ones - and their abilities - in play.

The First Sliver is NUTS

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 Post subject: Re: Is a discussion on slivers warranted?
AgePosted: 2019-May-26 6:39 am 

Joined: 2019-May-15 8:39 am
Age: Wyvern
Viperion wrote:
First Sliver is NOT like Maelstrom Nexus.

You play it, and cascade into a Sliver that costs 4 or less. Cool.

But now it's in play. And ALL of your Sliver spells have cascade.

So you cast a 5CMC sliver. That cascades into a (for example) 3 CMC sliver. You cast it, and THAT cascades into a 2CMC sliver, and THAT cascades into a 1CMC Sliver

And suddenly after casting one Sliver, you have 4 new ones - and their abilities - in play.

The First Sliver is NUTS


Plus there's the fact that there's a bunch of ways to turn them into mana dorks, so...


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