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 Post subject: Re: Underrated Cards in EDH
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-17 11:23 am 
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Joined: 2007-Mar-28 12:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Omaha
intreped wrote:
Jeyal wrote:
Traitor's Clutch (7 cents)/Artful Dodge (21 cents): Counting to 21 is easier when you can't be blocked. Twice.

Distortion Strike and to a lesser extent Emerge Unscathed also fit in this role. The advantage of rebound is it means you aren't vulnerable to GY hate; the disadvantage is you MUST cast it the following upkeep, so if your Commander got removed between the first and second cast, you don't get to attack with it again unless you can somehow flash it in before your turn.


No doubt. The savings on mana from rebound are another, albeit minor, thing to consider.

Choosing between say, Artful Dodge, Distortion Strike, and say, Tricks of the Trade as far as getting one creature through twice is a puzzle. Whether or not the destruction comes depends on just how threatening your commander is, I suppose. No one is letting Rafiq hang around to get domed twice, for example.

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 Post subject: Re: Underrated Cards in EDH
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-17 3:03 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Feb-07 4:15 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
My three favorite removal spells in the game are Bladebrand, Twisted Image, and Psychotic Fury. They're all a bit situational, but that's part of the beauty of it: nobody ever expects their 1/1 chump blocker to take down their opponent's Zacama, nor do they expect said Zacama to suddenly hit for lethal. Add in the fact that they all replace themselves and you've got some very efficient ways of dealing with problem creatures.

Actually, combat tricks in general are underutilized in commander. One of my favorite wins ever happened while I was playing Thrun voltron. Guy playing Ishkanah spiders cast Triumph of the Hordes and swung at the in-the-lead control player for not quite lethal but enough that he'd basically have to ruin his board to stay alive, and everything was set for 8 damage to go through. One Giant Growth from me later and the biggest threat to my unstoppable troll monster was gone, sealing victory for me.

Other random cards that I think are criminally underutilized:

Release to the Wind: I love versatile cards. And like all Unsummon effects, this one is great because it is both a removal spell and an anti-removal spell packed into one. It's better than cards like Essence Flux because you can choose when the card comes back. It's better than a Rescue effect because the card is free to recast. And you don't care that all of the above makes it a weaker removal piece, because the target is a threat that needs to be taken care of now by whatever means possible. Not to mention all the shenanigans that go on when you target something like your own E-Wit.

Bedlam: 4 mana "creatures you control are unblockable". Sure, your opponents' creatures are too, but you're the one running Bedlam, which means you're better prepared to take advantage of that situation.

Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis and many other "group hug" generals: People see generals like these and think "Oh, they have abilities that help my opponent. Therefore I must build them as a group hug deck." No, that's not it. You build decks that take advantage of your opponents' increased resources (theft, punisher, rattlesnake), turn the symmetrical advantage asymmetrical, or use everyone's perception of you as the benevolent underdog to fly under the radar.

Every single card in the game that gives Treasure or Clues: Ramp and card advantage stapled onto other effects. Also works really well with artifact-heavy strategies. What's not to like?

The Fate Reforged Dragonlord cycle: While these five obviously are amazing in a dragon tribal deck, most of them are good enough to stand on their own merits. Kolaghan and Dromoka in particular are rather efficiently costed for what they do, while Silumgar and Ojutai are repeated removal sources and Atarka is just a game ender if not answered.


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 Post subject: Re: Underrated Cards in EDH
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-17 4:22 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Jul-18 9:59 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Uktabi_Kong wrote:
Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis and many other "group hug" generals: People see generals like these and think "Oh, they have abilities that help my opponent. Therefore I must build them as a group hug deck." No, that's not it. You build decks that take advantage of your opponents' increased resources (theft, punisher, rattlesnake), turn the symmetrical advantage asymmetrical, or use everyone's perception of you as the benevolent underdog to fly under the radar.

I'm intrigued by your ideas and wish to subscribe to your newsletter. My current K&T is unchanged from the precon but I want to change it into a group hug/landfall deck. Can you expand on the "punisher" and "rattlesnake" strategies, particularly in regard to how they work in a group hug build?

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"Degenerate, unfun decks generally come from degenerate, unfun players in my experience." - Cthulus Thrall

"- if this spell is played ten times in a given game then I suggest you warm up the tar and pluck some chickens" - tarnar

The internet's great at making noise, and poor at operating pants. There's gonna be half-dressed mobs screeching half-assed arguments for the rest of the 21st century - Kemev


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 Post subject: Re: Underrated Cards in EDH
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-17 8:40 pm 

Joined: 2015-Jan-14 2:58 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Righteous Aura is a great defensive card that not only can just nullify large singe sources of damage, but can be used to mitigate commander damage and poison counters.

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I'm seriously suspicious of any card that makes Doubling Season look fair and reasonable.


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 Post subject: Re: Underrated Cards in EDH
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-17 9:53 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
Viperion wrote:
Uktabi_Kong wrote:
Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis and many other "group hug" generals: People see generals like these and think "Oh, they have abilities that help my opponent. Therefore I must build them as a group hug deck." No, that's not it. You build decks that take advantage of your opponents' increased resources (theft, punisher, rattlesnake), turn the symmetrical advantage asymmetrical, or use everyone's perception of you as the benevolent underdog to fly under the radar.

I'm intrigued by your ideas and wish to subscribe to your newsletter. My current K&T is unchanged from the precon but I want to change it into a group hug/landfall deck. Can you expand on the "punisher" and "rattlesnake" strategies, particularly in regard to how they work in a group hug build?

I've tried to do a punisher kind of route with K&T, and it absolutely has potential. Unfortunately I haven't spent enough time tuning the deck I have. I went too far down one route and need to find my way back. So what I'm saying is count me in on learning more.

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 Post subject: Re: Underrated Cards in EDH
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-18 1:28 am 
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Joined: 2012-Feb-07 4:15 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Viperion wrote:
Uktabi_Kong wrote:
Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis and many other "group hug" generals: People see generals like these and think "Oh, they have abilities that help my opponent. Therefore I must build them as a group hug deck." No, that's not it. You build decks that take advantage of your opponents' increased resources (theft, punisher, rattlesnake), turn the symmetrical advantage asymmetrical, or use everyone's perception of you as the benevolent underdog to fly under the radar.

I'm intrigued by your ideas and wish to subscribe to your newsletter. My current K&T is unchanged from the precon but I want to change it into a group hug/landfall deck. Can you expand on the "punisher" and "rattlesnake" strategies, particularly in regard to how they work in a group hug build?

Regarding punisher, there's a pretty established idea of decks popularly known as "group slug", where you run a commander like Kaervek, the Merciless or Zo-Zu, the Punisher in a group hug build alongside cards like Spiteful Visions. The idea here is the exact inverse: run a group hug commander alongside a bunch of cards that punish people for doing the thing you're allowing them to do. The only problem with this strategy is that the entire point of group hug is the fact that it's an undercosted beneficial effect to you, so you will inevitably take a pretty big punishment as well.

Regarding rattlesnake, I'll admit that I used the term a bit sloppily and also had two different ideas in mind. The first is to build a standard(ish) control build and constantly play up the politics of it as much as possible, with statements like "if that thing attacks me, it's not going to live" flowing constantly. The second is to build a deck that gains value from your opponents playing the game. Effects like Dragonlair Spider, Mind's Dilation, Sunscorch Regent, and Consecrated Sphinx should be abound.


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 Post subject: Re: Underrated Cards in EDH
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-18 7:14 am 
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Joined: 2010-Jul-18 9:59 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
K&T being non-black limits the punisher angle a bit; although there is Treacherous Terrain in the precon which definitely fits in that category (that with Collective Voyage got me a fairly memorable win with that deck :twisted: )

_________________
"Degenerate, unfun decks generally come from degenerate, unfun players in my experience." - Cthulus Thrall

"- if this spell is played ten times in a given game then I suggest you warm up the tar and pluck some chickens" - tarnar

The internet's great at making noise, and poor at operating pants. There's gonna be half-dressed mobs screeching half-assed arguments for the rest of the 21st century - Kemev


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 Post subject: Re: Underrated Cards in EDH
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-18 9:03 am 
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Joined: 2009-Nov-12 10:51 am
Age: Drake
Uktabi_Kong wrote:
Release to the Wind: I love versatile cards. And like all Unsummon effects, this one is great because it is both a removal spell and an anti-removal spell packed into one. It's better than cards like Essence Flux because you can choose when the card comes back. It's better than a Rescue effect because the card is free to recast. And you don't care that all of the above makes it a weaker removal piece, because the target is a threat that needs to be taken care of now by whatever means possible. Not to mention all the shenanigans that go on when you target something like your own E-Wit.


Release to the Wind is awesome cause it has so many uses. In one of my decks I have Venser, Shaper Savant for the main purpose of hitting him with it, and then having a panic button I can use whenever for the rest of the game. Having extra hands available is always one of my favorite things to try and pull off.

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Lady Orca (Browbeat-style choices deck)
Asmira, Holy Avenger (Selesnya graveyard tricks)
Keranos, God of Storms (Curiosity and creatures that deal noncombat damage)
Rasputin Dreamweaver (Voltron and x-spells)


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 Post subject: Re: Underrated Cards in EDH
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-23 9:11 am 
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Joined: 2018-Aug-19 4:17 pm
Age: Wyvern
I’ve gotten a lot of mileage out of Oak Street Innkeeper and I can’t recommend it enough. It’s a great budget option for Asceticism and in general its a nice hidden gem that nobody ever really recognizes.


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 Post subject: Re: Underrated Cards in EDH
AgePosted: 2019-Jul-06 10:22 am 

Joined: 2019-Jul-06 9:51 am
Age: Hatchling
Location: Texas, USA
I have found that one of the most underrated cards ever was Portcullis from Stronghold. Dropping it at any time made me a target, but unless artifact removal is used, most people could do nothing about it. At worst it slowed the game until I could combo out. At best it locked out my opponent forever...I am surprised to see the price at under $2. It is fun to use with bounce shenanigans with the following card as well...
Another fun one was Spreading Plague from Invasion. I like having Niv-Mizzet Reborn as a commander so I could wipe the board and refill my hand.
A Commander that is vastly underrated is Malfegor. Wiping the board is no joke, even at the cost of my hand (which always seems to be 3 or 4 cards at the time), filling a graveyard is cool in black/red especially if you have Haakon, Stromgald Scourge and a fist full of black and red knights (+ new cavaliers?) + tutors like Entomb, Buried Alive and Gamble. I usually use Living Death and a pile of demons to make the game literally a living hell. I lose games a lot, but it is fun to see how chaotic stuff gets, because neither me nor my opponents can control all the demon-anigans.

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 Post subject: Re: Underrated Cards in EDH
AgePosted: 2019-Jul-06 5:10 pm 
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Joined: 2013-Oct-26 9:21 am
Age: Dragon
Location: Xenia, OH, USA
Vodalian Illusionist... A great way to save something, get rid of something temporarily, or whatever


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 Post subject: Re: Underrated Cards in EDH
AgePosted: 2019-Jul-06 5:47 pm 

Joined: 2012-Oct-24 8:05 pm
Age: Drake
bodenruker wrote:
I have found that one of the most underrated cards ever was Portcullis ...
Another fun one was Spreading Plague

I don't think those are underrated, so much as brutally powerful hosers against any strategy that relies on creatures. So most people choose not to play them because they rely on creatures or just don't want to be that brutal.


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