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 Post subject: Joining a new Meta
AgePosted: 2019-May-31 1:55 am 
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Joined: 2012-Dec-03 3:16 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Hello All,

I recently moved to Palm Coast, FL and I am thinking of going to a commander night somewhere (maybe Daytona Beach?) but not sure who will be there and wanted to get a general reaction on potential decks I have. I just updated my Izoni deck but I also have Liliana, Heretical Healer (sac for profit), Lord Windgrace (durdle w/lands), Bant Merfolk is 90% done, Teysa, Orzhov Scion (sac for profit), and Saheeli, the Gifted slightly tweaked precon.

So if you could give me your general Groan-o-meter, that would be great. I am likely to bring all of them and decide based on reactions here and there what I end up playing. Thanks for your time!

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The usual answer is "the social contract", but I guess that is not what you are looking for. Try house rules.


With perfect mana, reasonable removal, disruption, and card advantage, we're back to pitchforks and torches. And it's about to get worse for those who do not enjoy the game as Richard Garfield intended, playing as few win conditions as possible and prompting concession after all hopes (and spells) are lost. - Shaheen Soorani


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 Post subject: Re: Joining a new Meta
AgePosted: 2019-May-31 4:31 am 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
Woah, Bant Merfolk? I was recently putting together a mono-Blue Beginner deck that was Merfolk tribal, and ended up also building Bant Merfolk since I had the cards (had an old Legacy Merfolk deck with multiple copies of Merfolk lords). How is your's looking?

I'm nowhere near Florida, but the only one I'd groan at is Teysa. I find the combos related to her to be dry and uninteresting, probably mostly due to how overdone they typically are. That's really all up to personal preference though. I'd give the rest a chance at the very least.

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 Post subject: Re: Joining a new Meta
AgePosted: 2019-May-31 4:49 am 
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Joined: 2007-Mar-28 12:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Omaha
Nothing really jumps out at me as "immediately groanworthy". Windgrace would give me a little pause- -that guy tiptoes the line of "too good" sometimes.

(But really, that means I should be playing more graveyard hate, honestly).

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 Post subject: Re: Joining a new Meta
AgePosted: 2019-May-31 6:52 am 
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Joined: 2012-Dec-03 3:16 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Segrus wrote:
Woah, Bant Merfolk? I was recently putting together a mono-Blue Beginner deck that was Merfolk tribal, and ended up also building Bant Merfolk since I had the cards (had an old Legacy Merfolk deck with multiple copies of Merfolk lords). How is your's looking?

I'm nowhere near Florida, but the only one I'd groan at is Teysa. I find the combos related to her to be dry and uninteresting, probably mostly due to how overdone they typically are. That's really all up to personal preference though. I'd give the rest a chance at the very least.


Figured Teysa might elicit at least one groan... and for a while I didn't have one but Teysa was my second commander iirc, and so much value.

I need to finish Bant Merfolk, I got a big chunk of it donated to me through Grixmas and have done a lot of research and theorycrafting, but have not actually sleeved it up. Partially due to the move but also it will eat up a lot of duals, so hesitant to commit. Have you posted your decklist? I would love to check it out.

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Shabbaman wrote:
The usual answer is "the social contract", but I guess that is not what you are looking for. Try house rules.


With perfect mana, reasonable removal, disruption, and card advantage, we're back to pitchforks and torches. And it's about to get worse for those who do not enjoy the game as Richard Garfield intended, playing as few win conditions as possible and prompting concession after all hopes (and spells) are lost. - Shaheen Soorani


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 Post subject: Re: Joining a new Meta
AgePosted: 2019-May-31 7:23 am 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
Inkeyes22 wrote:
have done a lot of research

Well, let me tell YOU something. YOU may have done a lot of research, but I'VE...

:oops:

...just kinda thrown things together. It'll probably be disappointing, but if you really want to see it here's the link. I build a lot through instinct and whatever I have lying around so I don't have to buy as much. So this is...about as preliminary of a list as it gets. I'm sorry.

Also, I really wouldn't chase away somebody for playing Teysa, I just probably won't ever build her. I'd still take it and see how people feel.

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 Post subject: Re: Joining a new Meta
AgePosted: 2019-May-31 9:49 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Dec-10 12:16 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Inkeyes22 wrote:
So if you could give me your general Groan-o-meter, that would be great. I am likely to bring all of them and decide based on reactions here and there what I end up playing. Thanks for your time!


Here are my thoughts on the scale of "Boom" (miming a bullet to the brain) to "Awesome" (Fist pump)

Izoni:
First thought - "Ughh"; Question - "Is it insect tribal?"; If yes, change opinion to "Neat"
Liliana, Heretical Healer (sac for profit):
First thought - <Face Palm>; Question - "Is it Tribal or goodstuff?"; If yes, change opinion to <Boom>
Lord Windgrace (durdle w/lands):
First thought - "Sigh"; Question - "Is it Manlands?"; If yes, change opinion to "Cool"
Bant Merfolk is 90% done:
First thought - "Cool"; Question - "Is it Enchantress?"; If yes, change opinion to "Ughh"
Teysa, Orzhov Scion (sac for profit):
First thought - <Boom>; Question - "Is it spirit tribal?"; If yes, change opinion to "Hmmm"
Saheeli, the Gifted slightly tweaked precon.:
First thought - "Hmmm"; Question - "Is it token-themed?"; If yes, change opinion to "sigh"

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Seshiro the Anointed - Snake Tribal
Jedit Ojanen of Efrava - Cat and Warrior Dual Tribal
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 Post subject: Re: Joining a new Meta
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-01 2:15 am 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
Hrmmm.... bearing in mind I haven't read any lists, and just going on what you're sitting down with;

  • Izoni - my immediate concern is that this is going to be a grave pact-based slog. 7/10 rotten eggs.
  • Liliana - same but probably not as good - 6/10 rotten eggs.
  • Lord Windgrace - I've played against Windgrace a bunch and there's only one card that really drives me crazy - Constant Mists. It's way too easy for creature decks to straight-up lose to that card when the Windgrace player can do it literally forever. 4/10 rotten eggs.
  • Bant Merfolk - I think it appropriate for me not to judge this one.
  • Teysa - see Izoni. 7/10 rotten eggs.
  • Saheeli - as it's mainly a pre-con, it's probably fairly innocent. Saheeli can be powerful, but can also run out of gas without card draw. 3/10 rotten eggs.

Of course you could get to your new shop and find out that their power levels dwarf yours, DBZ style. Not knowing what sort of environment you're going into makes it hard to judge what would be accepted.

Side note: that's a lot of sac for value decks. Do they really play that much differently from each other that it's worth having all 3? I feel like you could just play something like Ghave and put the best cards from the 3 into one deck, and then build some other stuff with the leftovers.

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 Post subject: Re: Joining a new Meta
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-01 4:25 am 
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Joined: 2011-Jan-02 5:25 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Costa La Haya, capital del ducado Holanda
I didn't see Grave Pact in your Izoni deck, and didn't really spot any tutors either. If your Teysa is anything like that, that'll likely be OK. The thing is, people are still likely expecting you to tutor for Grave Pact and make everybody miserable. Or perhaps they laugh at you in your face because cause they know you'll be dead by poison counters before you have four mana.

I don't know.

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 Post subject: Re: Joining a new Meta
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-21 2:47 am 

Joined: 2019-Jun-12 8:43 pm
Age: Hatchling
Wait, what, metas are regional? They're not worldwide trends like in most games? Does the meta really matter, or is a deck that's appropriate for some club in city X inappropriate for city Y? That might explain my poor performance, since I gathered info about what's "hot" and what isn't from different sources on the Internet emanating from players all over the world. And now that I've got these houses for sale in Cyprus to classify by planned rentability for my company, I don't really have the free time it needs to get acquaintanced with the meta again...

... but then, if there's a different meta everywhere, it means that there's no meta at all, and that what's uncommon in a new club can be either a burden or a surprise deck that your opponents won't be ready to fight and defeat. Which means I just have to git gud.


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 Post subject: Re: Joining a new Meta
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-21 6:24 am 
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Joined: 2016-Nov-27 2:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Ranger_762 wrote:
Wait, what, metas are regional? They're not worldwide trends like in most games? Does the meta really matter, or is a deck that's appropriate for some club in city X inappropriate for city Y? That might explain my poor performance, since I gathered info about what's "hot" and what isn't from different sources on the Internet emanating from players all over the world. And now that I've got these houses for sale in Cyprus to classify by planned rentability for my company, I don't really have the free time it needs to get acquaintanced with the meta again...

... but then, if there's a different meta everywhere, it means that there's no meta at all, and that what's uncommon in a new club can be either a burden or a surprise deck that your opponents won't be ready to fight and defeat. Which means I just have to git gud.


Yep, metas are regional. Different friendly local gaming shops in the same country will have different metas and a group of friends will have another different meta still, even if they also play at all of those shops.

Gotta work out what's fun for you and your groups in your meta. There's very little universal meta beyond staples and what's generally good in generalised terms. There's things in common between them, but what works well varies. Muldrotha is garbage in a meta with tons of graveyard hate, for example.

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Beloved precons: Atraxa, Praetors' Voice; Saskia the Unyielding; Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury.


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 Post subject: Re: Joining a new Meta
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-22 1:09 am 
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Joined: 2012-Feb-07 4:15 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Regional metas are just the natural consequence of a format that is designed from the ground up to be casual. Universal metas tend to exist as a direct result of netdecking, which is a direct result of hard data on which decks exist and win, as well as a general motivation to "win at all costs". Both of those factors are blunted pretty severely in a casual format, which makes a universal meta a lot less likely.

If you show up to play Standard and don't have a solid game plan against Esper Teferi, Dimir Kefnet, Mono-Red Aggro, or whatever Wildgrowth Walker variant is popular, you're just going to lose because you're guaranteed to fight quite a few of each of them. If you show up to play Commander and don't have a solid game plan against any number of the generals on this page, you might still be fine because you're not guaranteed to fight any of them, and even if you do the decks aren't all built the same.


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 Post subject: Re: Joining a new Meta
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-23 9:38 am 
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Joined: 2018-Aug-19 4:17 pm
Age: Wyvern
Ranger_762 wrote:
And now that I've got these houses for sale in Cyprus to classify by planned rentability for my company, I don't really have the free time it needs to get acquaintanced with the meta again...


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 Post subject: Re: Joining a new Meta
AgePosted: 2019-Jul-07 10:18 pm 

Joined: 2019-Jul-07 10:16 pm
Age: Hatchling
May be we are near? Will be thankful if we go for a walk together :roll:


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