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 Post subject: Vilis, Broker Of Blood
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-20 11:00 am 

Joined: 2018-Jul-15 5:17 am
Age: Hatchling
http://www.magicspoiler.com/mtg-spoiler/vilis-broker-of-blood/

Recent Core Set 2020 spoiler. This card is trying to be Griselbrand without quite getting there. It requires an enabler, but could be used to do some pretty broken stuff out of the command zone. Life for cards is always a delicate balance in EDH. Whaddaya think?


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 Post subject: Re: Vilis, Broker Of Blood
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-20 11:29 am 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
Yeah, that's... definitely groan-worthy. If the static ability were tied to the activated ability, it would be fine. The fact that you can do it with ANY life loss is a bit more problematic. Necropotence lets you draw cards NOW, for example.

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 Post subject: Re: Vilis, Broker Of Blood
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-20 12:00 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Feb-07 4:15 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Note that it's not a may ability, so he's pretty much an automatic game loss against Underworld Dreams and any card that looks remotely like it.

My opinion of him is pretty similar to my opinion of Razaketh. He can get stupid with the right shenanigans on-board, but does require quite a bit more investment so that he's not just "entomb, play him, draw my deck, win". The fact that his ability requires mana (and a specific color of mana at that) is a small but relevant cost, much like Razaketh's sacrificing. He also, unlike Grissy, has no way to replenish the life on his own.

Is he going to be strong? Hell yes. Is he going to be banworthy? I'm not as sure of my answer as I've been for the last bunch of "omg ban this now" cards, but I'm still going to go with a solid no.

On a side note, I'm really excited for him for Standard play of all things. Any chance I get to play a reanimator deck in Standard I'll jump at, and he seems like the perfect top end for a reanimator deck.


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 Post subject: Re: Vilis, Broker Of Blood
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-20 12:58 pm 

Joined: 2014-Jul-26 11:35 am
Age: Elder Dragon
I see a few good pieces for a standard reanimation deck, but not the reanimate itself.

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 Post subject: Re: Vilis, Broker Of Blood
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-22 1:53 am 

Joined: 2019-Mar-15 1:06 pm
Age: Wyvern
Strong? Yes. Ban worthy? No.


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 Post subject: Re: Vilis, Broker Of Blood
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-23 3:46 am 

Joined: 2009-Jul-02 4:25 pm
Age: Drake
Does that fact that I want to run him in Nekusar so I can donate him to someone make me a bad person?


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 Post subject: Re: Vilis, Broker Of Blood
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-23 4:17 am 

Joined: 2015-Jan-14 2:58 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
majikal wrote:
Does that fact that I want to run him in Nekusar so I can donate him to someone make me a bad person?


Probably. Welcome to the club!

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I'm seriously suspicious of any card that makes Doubling Season look fair and reasonable.


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 Post subject: Re: Vilis, Broker Of Blood
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-23 4:53 am 
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Joined: 2014-Jul-28 8:30 am
Age: Dragon
Very excited for the opportunity to play mono-black suicide in EDH. Currently cooking up a trashy list.

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specter404 wrote:
Basically, when it comes to commander, I want you to stab me through the heart, not cut off my balls.

Gath Immortal wrote:
Twenty Kavus and a Dream is not a legacy deck.


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 Post subject: Re: Vilis, Broker Of Blood
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-23 11:07 am 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
kirkusjones wrote:
Currently cooking up a trashy list.

Which will probably still win out of nowhere given how stupidly powerful that ability is.

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"The President's job - and if someone sufficiently vain and stupid is picked he won't realize this - is not to wield power, but to draw attention away from it." -- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide tot he Galaxy Radio Transcripts predicting the future.


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 Post subject: Re: Vilis, Broker Of Blood
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-23 4:05 pm 
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Joined: 2014-Jul-28 8:30 am
Age: Dragon
You'll just have to wait and see, Sid ;)

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specter404 wrote:
Basically, when it comes to commander, I want you to stab me through the heart, not cut off my balls.

Gath Immortal wrote:
Twenty Kavus and a Dream is not a legacy deck.


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 Post subject: Re: Vilis, Broker Of Blood
AgePosted: 2019-Jul-10 4:25 am 

Joined: 2019-Jul-09 4:45 am
Age: Wyvern
I have been play testing him extensively in a couple lists on tapped out and by all means he is broken. Especially in multi colored decks. I built a Kess reanimator deck that can usually get him out turn three or four and what I do is use pain lands, talismans, and shock lands as mana fixing as well as card draw. He is extremely powerful. I wouldn't say ban worthy because I don't like to see any card banned but overall he is comparable to griselbrand and in some cases quite a bit better. Griselbrand has an activated ability that gives you a set number of cards that in combo decks can lead to fast wins but Vilis makes playing a midrange game better because your life loss cards count as cantrips. Very good and I would recommend him as your primary reanimation target. Unless you want have a sacrifice outlet, then reanimate hulk. Or you are playing the deck called Razakrats.


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 Post subject: Re: Vilis, Broker Of Blood
AgePosted: 2019-Jul-27 3:44 am 
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Joined: 2014-Jul-28 8:30 am
Age: Dragon
Got to play some games with Vilis at the helm last night. He is powerful and swingy, but not broken. Also, my opponents' threat assessment wasn't all that great, which allowed me to cast a Magus of the Mirror, slap boots on it and trade my measly four life for someone else's 36. Felt real good to burn 14 of that on a Hatred next turn.

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specter404 wrote:
Basically, when it comes to commander, I want you to stab me through the heart, not cut off my balls.

Gath Immortal wrote:
Twenty Kavus and a Dream is not a legacy deck.


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 Post subject: Re: Vilis, Broker Of Blood
AgePosted: 2019-Sep-04 12:00 am 
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Joined: 2011-Jan-16 5:36 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Toronto, ON
Adding more data: a maindecked Vilis decided a game last night.

The draw power is a very bonkers, and not just being able to pay B to do so (though, it helps that he can just kind of pay mana for cards). There's lots of ways to lose life, it turns out, and in great quantities as well.

Some tricks:
Reanimate draws 8 up front. You have mana to draw more.
Makeshift Mannequin is a surprise in combat when I attacked a player. He didn't block with Vilis, drew many, many cards.
Feldon of the Third Path (and Apprentice Necromancer, Doomed Necromancer, and Coffin Queen) make attacks against a player with Vilis in the yard extremely not viable.

I wouldn't say that Vilis is as strong as Griselbrand, but, let's be fair: Griselbrand is a very high bar, and I think cards that are less broken/ubiquitous than Griselbrand should be considered for banning.

Less than the problematic draw, I dislike the idea that attacking the player is counterproductive. If you punch a Vilis player with some creatures, they're as likely to take the damage instead of blocking, and get free draw so they can do something catastrophic on their own turn. It creates a weirdly punishing calculus where you don't want to attack/push a player towards defeat because it paradoxically will move them closer to victory instead. It becomes a very all-or-nothing game where you need to be able to just kill the player using Vilis outright.

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 Post subject: Re: Vilis, Broker Of Blood
AgePosted: 2019-Sep-04 2:31 pm 

Joined: 2014-Jul-26 11:35 am
Age: Elder Dragon
This is going to sound like "run more answers", however I wonder if we should just be playing more card draw restricting effects as a matter of course. Spirit of the Labyrinth is the one I can think of but I know there are more, notion thief?.

They brick vilis pretty hard, and it would be rather funny to smash them for 15 damage, then flash in the thief. They're also just not bad in the format, punishing the many storm type decks that just want to draw cards and spin wheels.

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 Post subject: Re: Vilis, Broker Of Blood
AgePosted: 2019-Sep-04 11:45 pm 
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Joined: 2006-Dec-31 12:26 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
I love Notion Thief. Almost always useful in this format :)


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