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 Post subject: Mirror of the Forebears combo
AgePosted: 2019-Oct-30 1:44 am 

Joined: 2011-Mar-02 8:37 am
Age: Drake
One of my friends complained that I play Blue too much and challenged me to build a Boros deck. Rather than build an aggro deck like he expects, I've been brainstorming a Red/White value engine Gerrard, Weatherlight Hero deck with one or two combos. For the combos, I want creative jank rather than anything obvious like Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker.

So far I've come up with the following:

Gerrard, Weatherlight Hero
Mirror of the Forebears set on Humans or Soldiers
Scrap Trawler
Artifacts that generate {3} mana or more
Sacrifice outlet for artifacts (Krark-Clan Ironworks being the easiest)

Pay {1} to activate Mirror of the Forebears targeting Gerrard, Weatherlight Hero and, because of the legend rule, send the artifact copy to the graveyard. Put the Gerrard trigger on the stack first, then the Scrap Trawler trigger. Scrap Trawler sees the Mirror as a 4cmc artifact creature on the battlefield but 2cmc artifact in the grave, so I return it to my hand before the Gerrard trigger exiles it. Sacrifice the mana artifacts and return them to the battlefield untapped with Gerrard's trigger. Recast Mirror and repeat.

The combo gets infinite graveyard triggers, infinite storm, and infinite mana if the artifacts generate {4} or more.

Alternatives include: Salvager of Ruin or Myr Retriever/Junk Diver/Workshop Assistant plus an instant speed sac outlet instead of Scrap Trawler. Mirage Mirror works in place of Mirror of the Forebears with Salvager of Ruin but not with Scrap Trawler, but requires at least {5} each loop.

1. Am I missing any alternatives?
2. What's the best win method? Right now I only have Cogwork Assembler.
3. I'm planning to play mana dorks like Iron Myr and Palladium Myr but don't have a good way to give them haste. Hammer of Purphoros would work but seems like a wasted slot. Any other ideas?

I'm also considering including Cogwork Assembler + Myr Galvanizer + Palladium Myr because, although it's not quite as janky as the combo above, it's comprised of 3cmc artifact creatures that fit in with cards like Goblin Engineer, Teshar, Ancestor's Apostle, and Sun Titan which I also plan to run.

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 Post subject: Re: Mirror of the Forebears combo
AgePosted: 2019-Oct-30 1:33 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
spin13 wrote:
I'm planning to play mana dorks like Iron Myr and Palladium Myr but don't have a good way to give them haste. Hammer of Purphoros would work but seems like a wasted slot. Any other ideas?

Play mana echoes and get your mana from the entering the battlefield instead of tapping them.

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 Post subject: Re: Mirror of the Forebears combo
AgePosted: 2019-Oct-31 4:42 am 

Joined: 2011-Mar-02 8:37 am
Age: Drake
Sid the Chicken wrote:
Play mana echoes and get your mana from the entering the battlefield instead of tapping them.


Thanks, I hadn't thought of that. Unfortunately, Mana Echoes is out of my budget. However you got me thinking about other ways to get mana out of creatures without tapping them so I may include Ashnod's Altar, which is also easily recurrable.

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 Post subject: Re: Mirror of the Forebears combo
AgePosted: 2019-Oct-31 10:50 am 

Joined: 2011-Feb-07 3:37 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
spin13 wrote:
1. Am I missing any alternatives?
2. What's the best win method? Right now I only have Cogwork Assembler.


Blasting Station?

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 Post subject: Re: Mirror of the Forebears combo
AgePosted: 2019-Oct-31 2:21 pm 

Joined: 2012-Oct-24 8:05 pm
Age: Drake
This is more creative than the usual combos. There are a number of cheap artifact sac outlets, including Atog, Ravenous Intruder, and Slobad. Makeshift Munitions and Magmaw also double as win conditions if you have enough rocks that tap for more than 1 mana. And Megatog can kill one opponent per combat through blockers. Or just use Comet Storm if you're making infinite mana.

However, I'm concerned you might be fulfilling the letter of your friend's challenge rather than the spirit. Your friends are probably not sick of the actual color blue. Rather, I'd guess they're sick of counterspells, defensive instants, and combo wins. They might be happier if you built any kind of combat-based deck, even if it's Thassa, God of sea monsters, than a Boros combo deck.


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 Post subject: Re: Mirror of the Forebears combo
AgePosted: 2019-Oct-31 3:41 pm 

Joined: 2011-Mar-02 8:37 am
Age: Drake
NMS wrote:
However, I'm concerned you might be fulfilling the letter of your friend's challenge rather than the spirit. Your friends are probably not sick of the actual color blue. Rather, I'd guess they're sick of counterspells, defensive instants, and combo wins.


Thanks for both your suggestions and concern. You're not wrong that I'm purposely antagonizing my friend but it's just a bit of banter. He enjoys calling me "a filthy blue player" because, regardless of play style, most of my decks include blue and I enjoy calling him out when he plays decks with blue, too. While I'm certainly guilty of defensive instants, this would be my first combo deck and I only have two counterspells (Spellshift and Draining Whelk) across four decks with blue. My decklists are in my signature and I'd be genuinely curious to hear feedback if somebody thought my decks were oppressive or boring.

I was originally brewing a Akiri, Line-Slinger / Bruse Tarl, Boorish Herder deck when I discovered this combo, which I think is original and unique, and my motivation now is on seeing if I can make it work. I was also inspired by this awesome Chain Veil Gideon deck posted recently.

I was considering Serra Disciple or Crackdown Construct as ways to get around Propaganda effects that would stop a Cogwork Assembler army, but Atog is definitely better than Crackdown Construct.

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 Post subject: Re: Mirror of the Forebears combo
AgePosted: 2019-Oct-31 11:02 pm 
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Joined: 2008-Feb-29 5:57 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Duvall, WA
spin13 wrote:
. My decklists are in my signature and I'd be genuinely curious to hear feedback if somebody thought my decks were oppressive or boring.
.


i looked through your lists, they all look like fun piles to me. Im an extremely casual player and i'd hang with any of those decks. Isperia is the most boring looking if i were to steer one of em, but thats just because it appears to draw a whole lot of cards and thatts it. Still totally at a fair power level and wont ruin games, just not my personal style.


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 Post subject: Re: Mirror of the Forebears combo
AgePosted: 2019-Nov-01 12:53 am 

Joined: 2011-Mar-02 8:37 am
Age: Drake
Shoe wrote:
Isperia is the most boring looking if i were to steer one of em, but thats just because it appears to draw a whole lot of cards and thatts it. Still totally at a fair power level and wont ruin games, just not my personal style.


The Isperia list is the most reactive and certainly can be boring depending on what other people are doing. If nobody is doing anything I try to find humor in playing a land and passing yet again. Still, it's the deck that gets changed the most. I've recently added a few more Sirens to try to force combat more often. I hope blue gets a few more goad effects in coming sets.

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 Post subject: Re: Mirror of the Forebears combo
AgePosted: 2019-Nov-01 1:37 am 

Joined: 2012-Oct-24 8:05 pm
Age: Drake
spin13 wrote:
Thanks for both your suggestions and concern. You're not wrong that I'm purposely antagonizing my friend but it's just a bit of banter. He enjoys calling me "a filthy blue player" because, regardless of play style, most of my decks include blue and I enjoy calling him out when he plays decks with blue, too. While I'm certainly guilty of defensive instants, this would be my first combo deck and I only have two counterspells (Spellshift and Draining Whelk) across four decks with blue. My decklists are in my signature and I'd be genuinely curious to hear feedback if somebody thought my decks were oppressive or boring.

OK, glad it's in good fun. I can see Isperia being tough for combat-focused decks. They'd have to avoid overcommitting, and maybe gang up to get through all your tricks. And Intet is just a massive pile of value that I'd expect to be slow to get going, but become archenemy if the game goes long. But they seem like basically reasonable decks.


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 Post subject: Re: Mirror of the Forebears combo
AgePosted: 2019-Nov-01 11:12 am 
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Joined: 2010-Dec-10 12:16 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Warstorm Surge (with all the creature recursion) would be another win condition.

You could also go Myr Tribal, allowing token swarm and/or huge Myr Battlesphere swings. Add in Breath of Fury/Aggravated Assault and you can just use multiple combat steps in the same turn to hit everybody.

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 Post subject: Re: Mirror of the Forebears combo
AgePosted: 2019-Dec-05 2:55 pm 

Joined: 2011-Mar-02 8:37 am
Age: Drake
Treamayne wrote:
Warstorm Surge (with all the creature recursion) would be another win condition.


Based on your suggestion for Warstorm Surge, I ended up finding Flayer of the Hatebound. Thanks.

I posted the current decklist here.

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