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 Post subject: Arcades, the Strategist Frogify Tribal
AgePosted: 2019-Nov-09 5:16 am 

Joined: 2015-Jan-14 2:58 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Idea: Arcades Wall Tribal, but with all the Frogify, Pongify,Song of the Dryads, Oko, etc. Add Hushwing Gryff, Hushbringer, and Titania’s Song to stop other shenanigans.

Too griefy, or something worth looking at?

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I'm seriously suspicious of any card that makes Doubling Season look fair and reasonable.


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 Post subject: Re: Arcades, the Strategist Frogify Tribal
AgePosted: 2019-Nov-09 6:44 am 
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Joined: 2010-Dec-10 12:16 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Spectrar Ghost wrote:
Idea: Arcades, Wall Tribal, but with all the Frogify, Pongify,Song of the Dryads, Oko, etc. Add Hushwing Gryff, Hushbringer, and Titania’s Song to stop other shenanigans.

Too griefy, or something worth looking at?


What is the relation between Arcades, and creature griefer? It's not a bad idea. However, but wall tribal needs some robust support in the non-creature/non-Land third (at least my Abzan Wall tribal does) and losing much of that to random creature griefer seems like it might be difficult to pull off. I think the griefer portion would be better served under a different General, and Wall tribal would function better with a different sub-theme.

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Hazezon Tamar - Manland theme
Seshiro the Anointed - Snake Tribal
Jedit Ojanen of Efrava - Cat and Warrior Dual Tribal
Doran, the Seige Tower - Wall Tribal
Progenitus - Hydra themed Proliferate Deck
Karona, the False God - Backstabbing Hug


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 Post subject: Re: Arcades, the Strategist Frogify Tribal
AgePosted: 2019-Nov-09 6:52 am 

Joined: 2015-Jan-14 2:58 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
My thought was that big or otherwise threatening creatures get turned into frogs or elks so they can’t get over the walls. Your Ulamog is less threatening as a 3/3 with no abilities that’s being blocked by a 0/7 that deals damage equal to its toughness.

Do you have a general in mind that you think would serve better?

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Antis wrote:
I'm seriously suspicious of any card that makes Doubling Season look fair and reasonable.


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 Post subject: Re: Arcades, the Strategist Frogify Tribal
AgePosted: 2019-Nov-09 7:35 am 

Joined: 2012-Oct-24 8:05 pm
Age: Drake
One big problem is that you're building around 1-for-1 removal, which is card disadvantage in multiplayer. Tuvasa would mitigate that.


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 Post subject: Re: Arcades, the Strategist Frogify Tribal
AgePosted: 2019-Nov-10 1:16 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Dec-10 12:16 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Spectrar Ghost wrote:
My thought was that big or otherwise threatening creatures get turned into frogs or elks so they can’t get over the walls. Your Ulamog is less threatening as a 3/3 with no abilities that’s being blocked by a 0/7 that deals damage equal to its toughness.


So, you aren't really trying to grief all/many creatures, more as a spot-control aspect. That makes more sense.

Spectrar Ghost wrote:
Do you have a general in mind that you think would serve better?


Well, in my mind, the top three most logical Generals for a Wall deck are:

I've made my thoughts on Pramikon clear in the C19 Spoiler thread. THough I guess you could use this option if enough of the Pongify type effects exist in Jeskai for you.

That leaves Arcades and Doran.

Arcades, the Strategist: GU gives access to most of the Simic and Oko effects you want of this type. Blue also gives you access to things like Mirror Match and similar combat tricks. Arcades also had Rolling Stones built in.
Doran, the Siege Tower: Doran himself helps this strategy along, since he effects the whole table with Toughness Damage. Also, many of the "damage by toughness" effects are Golgari (Grim Contest, etc.) as well as the Vhati il-Dal type effects.

In the end, you may want to see what color(s) in which the relevant effects you are considering fall, then see if Abzan or Bant serves the concept better. Do you gain more with U or B?

_________________
V/R

HK

Hazezon Tamar - Manland theme
Seshiro the Anointed - Snake Tribal
Jedit Ojanen of Efrava - Cat and Warrior Dual Tribal
Doran, the Seige Tower - Wall Tribal
Progenitus - Hydra themed Proliferate Deck
Karona, the False God - Backstabbing Hug


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 Post subject: Re: Arcades, the Strategist Frogify Tribal
AgePosted: 2019-Nov-13 1:30 am 
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Joined: 2011-Nov-16 1:14 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Prague, Heart of Europe
Yeah, struggling to find a connection between the two themes. And without a connection, it might end up as a mess of a deck. How to capitalize on your opponents' creatures becoming something else, poor chump blockers with no abilities? In fact, I'm struggling to answer that in general, much less in the context of a Wall tribal. There is always that nagging thought "yeah, I could do that, OR I could just kill the dude". Sorry, that's not constructive at all, is it?

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In my early teens I was a Timmy.
In my late teens I was a Spike.
In my 20's I was a Johnny.
Now, I just like to play.
'Active decks' list here.
Currently hiring servants for my palace, made from my own walls of text.


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 Post subject: Re: Arcades, the Strategist Frogify Tribal
AgePosted: 2019-Nov-14 9:58 pm 

Joined: 2019-Nov-13 6:00 pm
Age: Egg
Are there any examples of messy decks working or does that just no happen?


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 Post subject: Re: Arcades, the Strategist Frogify Tribal
AgePosted: 2019-Nov-17 12:32 am 
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Joined: 2010-Dec-10 12:16 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Goldner wrote:
Are there any examples of messy decks working or does that just no happen?

Well, that would depend on the Meta. Most of my decks are what many people would call "messy" or "jank," but they are fun to play and even win sometimes. Would I take my Doran, the Siege Tower Tribal Wall deck to a Competitive Commander table against T3 combo decks? ... No. Is it fun and functional enough to win at a random MTGO casual; table? ... Yes.

Antis wrote:
Yeah, struggling to find a connection between the two themes. And without a connection, it might end up as a mess of a deck. How to capitalize on your opponents' creatures becoming something else, poor chump blockers with no abilities? In fact, I'm struggling to answer that in general, much less in the context of a Wall tribal. There is always that nagging thought "yeah, I could do that, OR I could just kill the dude". Sorry, that's not constructive at all, is it?


I've been thinking on this. Honestly, if I were going to try making "Frogify Tribal" I would either go for Cromat Illusion Tribal or Shapeshifter Tribal (General and CI based on whatever you need to support the Lignify type effects you want to run. If you have enough Auras and Enchantments you could even go with an enchantress subtheme. Maybe use Hubris/Aura Finesse type effects to move the auras around and change up who is Elked. Kitsune Mystic/Autumn-Tail, Kitsune Sage makes this repeatable (as well as the over-costed Crown of the Ages).

_________________
V/R

HK

Hazezon Tamar - Manland theme
Seshiro the Anointed - Snake Tribal
Jedit Ojanen of Efrava - Cat and Warrior Dual Tribal
Doran, the Seige Tower - Wall Tribal
Progenitus - Hydra themed Proliferate Deck
Karona, the False God - Backstabbing Hug


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 Post subject: Re: Arcades, the Strategist Frogify Tribal
AgePosted: 2019-Nov-17 2:17 am 
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Joined: 2011-Nov-16 1:14 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Prague, Heart of Europe
Don't forget Simic Guidmage! :D

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I could be wrong. I'm just not in the mood.
tempesteye wrote:
In my early teens I was a Timmy.
In my late teens I was a Spike.
In my 20's I was a Johnny.
Now, I just like to play.
'Active decks' list here.
Currently hiring servants for my palace, made from my own walls of text.


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 Post subject: Re: Arcades, the Strategist Frogify Tribal
AgePosted: 2019-Nov-17 8:09 am 
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Joined: 2012-Feb-07 4:15 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
So, as someone who runs a very similar Arcades list, I think I might have a slightly different perspective to shed on this. The Arcades list I have is basically the result of wanting to run rather basic Bant control deck, and Arcades happened to be the general I found the most interesting. So my version looks a lot less like a Wall Tribal deck and a lot more like a standard control list but with all of the draw spells replaced with walls, and with exactly one exception (Wall of Denial, the most efficient beater in all of Magic) all of the walls in the deck do something to contribute to the control strategy.

As I was building the deck and running it, it soon became apparent that the removal spells I was happiest using were not the blow-stuff-up cards, but the bounce, delay, flicker, and top-of-library based removal. Since the deck is so heavily based on the EtB of the walls, these cards all had a double effect of being equally usable on my own guys.

Combining my idea with yours, I think it'd be really cool to modify the theme you're going for from "All removal is Frogify" to "all removal is impermanent".


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