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MTG Commander/Elder Dragon Highlander • View topic - BAN RECURING NIGHTMARE

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Poll ended at 2007-Jul-31 5:55 am
47%  47%  [ 8 ]
53%  53%  [ 9 ]
Total votes : 17
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 Post subject: BAN RECURING NIGHTMARE
AgePosted: 2007-Jul-01 5:55 am 

Joined: 2007-Jul-01 5:47 am
Age: Hatchling


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AgePosted: 2007-Jul-01 9:04 am 

Joined: 2007-Jun-04 6:34 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Gainsville, FL


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AgePosted: 2007-Jul-01 10:30 am 
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Joined: 2006-May-21 9:45 am
Age: Drake


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AgePosted: 2007-Jul-01 1:12 pm 

Joined: 2007-Jun-04 6:34 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Gainsville, FL
[quote="matthew"]Three syllables: Dis-en-chant

or

Krosan Grip

quote]

If you play Recurring Nightmare and activate it right away, an opponent never even gets a chance to play Krosan Grip, much less Disenchant, in response, as both the sacrifice and returning the enchantment to the hand are part of the cost of the activation, not the effect, and are performed prior to passing priority to any other player.
But yes, there are other solutions and I agree with matthew's overall point.


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AgePosted: 2007-Jul-01 3:45 pm 
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Joined: 2007-Jan-05 12:58 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Lately, when I cast Demonic Tutor, the two most common reasons for not finding Recurring Nightmare are
a) I need land.
b) I don't feel like winning the game right now.

The card has dominated many of our most recent games of EDH, mainly due to the fact that my brother has found a copy of his own. Now that multiple players have access to the enchantment, a game often comes down to a Nightmare race, leaving the game close and exciting for the two black players, but kicking everyone else off of the table.
If only one player has Recurring Nightmare, he almost always wins. During a three-team 2HG game last night, I came back to win, from 6 life, after my team-mate had quit the game, thanks solely and completely to Recurring Nightmare. True story.

There have been plenty of answers for the card printed in the past, of course. That is undeniable. However, it is still extremely hard to answer for most decks.

Recurring Nightmare's foils:
1) Counterspells
2) Graveyard removal
3) Pinpoint or mass hand destruction
4) Instant-speed sweeper followed by a disenchant
5) Pithing Needle

Counterspells are notoriously poor in big multiplayer games, as most people are aware. The blue mage will most often play with ~5 or so good ones in 100 card highlander, but I don't think any successful multiplayer deck can rely on having a counterspell at a key moment (not to mention that not everyone plays with islands). This same point can be made for discard effects.

Most of the good graveyard hosers are symmetrical (Ground Seal, Planar Void), so if you'd like to utilize the yard yourself, they're useless. Beyond that, in my opinion, they're quite narrow cards used to battle a particular metagame. If one enchantment forces me to put them into my decks, then that alone is indicitive of a game warping card.

As for point 4, Rout, Inferno and Starstorm are the only three relevant cards that I'm aware of.

The blue and black decks are the only ones that can reliably disrupt a player mid-Nightmare, and then only if they include a quantity of cards that they might otherwise have left out. Most devastating threats, including any of the permanents sitting on the Banned List, can be answered by a wide selection of cards that can be put into any deck.
When trying to find a way to stop this one, a lot of people would have to use Gatherer.

With all that said, it still might not be overpowered to the point of banning. It's not an unbound combo that wins instantly. Unless you're using Kokusho (which, let's face it, you probably are), you still need to find a way to force damage though.
Recurring Nightmare will define most of the games in which it appears, and the advantage it generates will propel it's owner far ahead in the game, but the advantage can be fought against successfully, if you're lucky and good.

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AgePosted: 2007-Jul-02 12:33 am 

Joined: 2007-Jul-02 12:14 am
Age: Wyvern
personaly I argee that adding hate recuring nightmare into your deck is a good idea, but the fact is your playing with a deck that has a hundred cards(99 not including your general) and with only one copy of each card even with touters it is hard to draw an out to this card, and lately in my playgroup it has been constantly dominating every game it resolves


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 Post subject: ban
AgePosted: 2007-Jul-03 7:54 am 
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Joined: 2007-Jul-03 7:50 am
Age: Drake
Location: Belgium
we play like 3 times a week, and we decided to ban Kokusho locally, because we noticed that the card itself wins games too often...

the combination with recurring is even worse

we didn't ban this one but we see it influences the game a lot.

so i voted pro banning..
would like to see other experiences with Kokusho displayed.

Jay

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AgePosted: 2007-Jul-30 9:28 am 

Joined: 2006-Jul-14 12:02 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Wherever I may roam


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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2007-Jul-30 1:47 pm 

Joined: 2007-Jun-04 6:34 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Gainsville, FL


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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2007-Jul-31 10:32 am 
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Joined: 2007-May-20 9:03 am
Age: Dragon
Location: Oakland, CA


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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2007-Aug-02 11:54 am 

Joined: 2007-Jun-07 1:11 pm
Age: Drake

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AgePosted: 2007-Aug-02 12:33 pm 

Joined: 2007-Jul-30 4:50 pm
Age: Hatchling
Location: Yuba City, CA.

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AgePosted: 2007-Aug-07 8:00 pm 

Joined: 2006-Aug-01 8:14 pm
Age: Wyvern


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